• tjsauce@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Machine learning is a tool amongst many. That being said, most good art requires more than a single tool, tools should be used with care. If you use enough AI that it becomes part of your artistic identity, it’s unlikely that your work will be impactful.

    I’m still waiting for someone to make art that requires machine learning and is obviously creative by our standards, instead of using AI to recreate old art. I know it’s possible to use this tool in a way that’s revolutionary, but the users and developers seem to have little interest in pushing art beyond replacing the artists.

    I want to see someone develop an original ML model with an original training set that can generate something impossible by any other method. I have a feeling this kind of art would barely reach the mainstream, but it would outlast the slop.

    • kamenLady.@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      That would be possible, in an abstract way.

      Let’s say the artist, first creates all the input that is fed to the AI for training.

      Let it be sounds, films, objects, drawings, literature. Everything has to be created by the artist exclusively.

      This will be a model that only knows the artist’s work and will generate output based on the work by the same artist.

      Now, let’s do that in a community. Everyone is free to share their models with others. Every art created from there would list all models used.

      Maybe someday we will have something like this. But we will only have this, if someone actively works on it, based on the way AI needs input. Something we are still learning and will sure change. We have to think of the AI we have now, like the first steps of humans actually building a functioning flying object. We are now at the step of the first set of wings, that keep us for 1 minute in the air, before failing and falling. That’s a long way until the first passenger airplane takes off.

      I have a feeling that we will have to come up with new definitions of copyright in the future.

    • This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      I want to see someone develop an original ML model with an original training set that can generate something impossible by any other method.

      That Machine Learning model will learn… from what?

    • andros_rex@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Brian Eno, Terry Riley, and John Cage are names that come close to doing what you are describing. The idea of “generative” or “stochastic” or “aleotoric” music has been around for longer than this current AI boom has.

      I also found this fascinating bit of music on wiki:

      viral symphOny is a collaborative electronic noise music symphony created by the postconceptual artist Joseph Nechvatal. It was created between the years 2006 and 2008 using custom artificial life C++ software based on the viral phenomenon model.

      There are possibilities, but there are 99 lazy and uncreative people who just want to press the “make music now” button for every 1 person that wants to spend hours building and training their own models/sequences. (Those 99 have absolutely ruined the lofi/study beats on YouTube…)

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Me: “Oh? Show me some of your original art.”

    Artist: “ONE ART PLEASE! ONE ART PLEASE! ONE ART PLEASE! ONE ART PLEASE!”

    Me: “What… what are you doing?”

    Artist: “Sorry, my artistic tools aren’t working properly. Let me try refining my prompts.”

  • Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Check out the youtuber “Neural Viz”. Using multiple AI tools, he has built an incredible universe of consistent characters. As @tjsauce pointed out, it ultimately comes down to how much you care about what you publish. You can spend hours trying to get AI systems to produce the exact effect you’re aiming for—but few people are truly searching for something specific. That’s where the artist becomes a designer: someone who not only creates, but curates with intention. Most people aren’t thinking that way.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Using multiple AI tools, he has built an incredible universe of consistent characters.

      He hasn’t, though. He’s done some rudimentary work and then turned the lion’s share of the design/development over to an algorithm that supplants his designs with work harvested from other professionals.

      You can spend hours trying to get AI systems to produce the exact effect you’re aiming for—but few people are truly searching for something specific.

      I think part of the problem with the “AI is Art, aktuly” discourse is that people who aren’t professional artists really believe art is a commodity and meeting volumetric need is the artist’s end goal. This isn’t about an individual synthesizing personal memories, ideas, and technique to produce an experience for an audience. This is about individuals within an audience stating their desires, and some random assortment of artists throwing out tropes that fall somewhere in between their collective demands.

      There is no concept of originalization. Everything is just a commercialized composite of prior works, created first and foremost to meet an immediate stated economic demand. Execs barking “I want a guy who looks like the Halo guy, but with long hair and a sword instead of a rifle” instead of some guy with family in the military and a talent for 3D rendering envisioning what a futuristic commando would look like.

      ‘An Overwhelmingly Negative And Demoralizing Force’: What It’s Like Working For A Company That’s Forcing AI On Its Developers

  • randon31415@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    “I am a photographer!”

    “So you just push a button and steal people’s privacy? Not real art!”

    • andros_rex@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Photography involves shot composition and timing. You don’t just point and press a button. That’s why people typically hire photographers for things like weddings - it’s an actual skill, and not something you want to just trust some random who doesn’t know at least stuff like the rule of thirds with. What to include in the frame, not cropping things out awkwardly, dealing with moving people, trying to catch flattering angles…

      That’s not even getting into post processing and editing.

      Your example would only make sense if someone was going around claiming they were an “artist” because they went around a museum taking full frame pictures of the pictures.

      • randon31415@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        That is exactly why I said it

        If you open up your camera app and spin around and take a picture, 99% of the picture will be garbage.

        If you boot up a AI art program and type in a random prompt, 99% of that will be garbage.

        Photographer have specialize lenses and choices of FOV that affects how the pictures look. Ai artists have specialized weight and loras that affect how the picture will look.

        Photographer don’t just take pictures at random. They set and frame the scenes - doing prep work and framing. AI artist can use base pictures instead of random noise to bias the outcome (image to image).

        With live subjects, photographer can either give no guidance, or direct the subjects (think “look at the camera and say cheese”, only more nuanced). With AI art, there is a whole subfield of prompt engineering l which is akin to this.

        After a photographer take pictures, they do minor touch ups and photoshoping to clean up parts that didn’t come out right. So too with AI artists.

        And with both, you can get 100s if not 1000s of pictures of a subject. The photographer and the AI artist true test is being able to pick from those thousands the one or two good shots.

        Yes there is a bunch of legal and copyright problems with AI art. When the camera was first invented, people argued that you couldn’t take pictures of crowds without getting everyone’s concent, nor could you take picture of other people’s property with out breaking the law. That the legal realities around photography weren’t settled didn’t mean those taking picture back then weren’t artists, and it doesn’t mean that people doing AI art today aren’t artists. AI generators are like camera in that you get out better results depending on how much work you put it.

  • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    “ai bad, updoots to the left”

    I think this is really rivaling AI generated images for lack of substance

  • Sculptus Poe@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Yeah, that is pretty much how it goes. Some nice person shares a piece of AI art they find interesting and the AntiAI bros bully them nonstop and proceed to word vomit their nonsense for the next 3 years all over every site even when it isn’t relevant.

    • tjsauce@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      Machine learning is a net positive for technology and society, IF used wisely. The people who consume art are distressed that they can no longer filter for AI. AI images would be less controversial if we didn’t have so much of it masquerading as human art.

      This technology is not the issue, it’s how people use it to the detriment of society and the environment.

      • Sculptus Poe@lemmy.world
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        13 days ago

        People love it when they find something they can bully people with and feel self righteous about it. Especially when they feel like they have a big enough gang to back them up.

        • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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          13 days ago

          Linux and windows. Another topic to avoid unless you instantly want it derailed.

          Funny how they are totally fine with using tools like Autofill with photoshop though. The hypocrisy is what’s the funniest.

  • gmtom@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Keep fighting the good fight. If we can just be a little bit more elitist and haulier than thou I’m sure we’ll make AI art go away.

    • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Oh no, we made talentless duschebro sad by dissing his favourite slop creating forestburner. Whatever we will do

      • gmtom@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        Exactly. If you just insult people enough, they will surely chabge their mind!!!

          • gmtom@lemmy.world
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            12 days ago

            Cool. I’ll keep that in mind next time you cry about AI “”“stealing”“” art and making artist redundant.

          • gmtom@lemmy.world
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            12 days ago

            Ah yes, people that use a computer program to make pictures are fascists. Very intelligent take.

            • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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              12 days ago

              No wonder you like slop generators that can hold context of exactly one sentence this much. You basically are one.

              • Guns0rWeD13@lemmy.world
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                12 days ago

                you are trying to gate-keep the terms ‘art’ and ‘artist’ pretty hard-core.

                i’m extremely anti fascist and this is not a true statement.

              • gmtom@lemmy.world
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                12 days ago

                And hitler was a vegetarian, so I guess all vegetarians are fascists.

                Also FYI, I’ve been arrested for physically assaulting neo nazis at a counter protes, so go fuck yourself keyboard warrior.

                • SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world
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                  12 days ago

                  Nah go fuck yourself. I can list all my accolades too but i don’t need to do that. You techno-fascists are the same.

        • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          Sorry, bozo, facts don’t care about your feelings. If you want people to be nice, be nice to them first.

            • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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              12 days ago

              I bet you can’t recognise irony even if it hits you in the face. Which is actually did right now.

              • gmtom@lemmy.world
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                12 days ago

                And now the projection, lol.

                But yeah, next time you cry about AI “stealing” something. I want you to remember “sorry bozo, facts don’t care about your feelings”