Yes, I’d love that also. Anything to stop the killing. Of course we need security for all - if Israel completely withdraws, security would have to be provided by someone or else Hamas would just build up and attack like before.

I do condemn Israel in the strongest way. But I also condemn Hamas.

Israel isn’t going to end ‘the occupation’ anytime soon. They want to stop Hamas’ military capability. They’re going to keep going until Hamas stops attacking. Nothing will stop this. It sucks, but that was clearly a decision made when Hamas attacked in Oct. we should keep calling for restraint on Israel’s party and safeguarding of civilians and allow aid to get through. But we should also call for Hamas to surrender. The only reason they keep this going is to get the support from idiots who see them as a legitimate defender of the people of Gaza. If that narrative turns on them, this whole thing could end quickly.

But if you agree that Hamas is despicable, why not call for it to surrender? You don’t think it would stop Israel, but it could. No, you can’t bring yourself to do that. Why? Because you don’t want Israel to ‘win’? The chance of saving children isn’t worth that much to you?

You don’t know that. And I don’t believe it.

I think I was pretty clear that I don’t support Israel.
But your minimizing the atrocities of Hamas doesn’t help the situation. Israel has gone off the deep end, just like the U.S. is going. But to not recognize Hamas’ desire to wipe out the Jews in Israel shows a very poor understanding of the situation.

No, they’re shooting indiscriminately and not safeguarding civilians and if it’s not a war crime, it should be. All the more reason for the people of Gaza to surrender - just like France did under blitzkrieg. Not a great choice to have to make but it’s insane that Gaza doesn’t surrender.

You do realize that Hamas is still fighting with guns and rockets against Israel, right?

You’re a genocide supporter then. Hamas wants to genocide Israel. And you are supporting Hamas.
I don’t support Israel’s actions in Gaza.
I was just pointing out that by calling it an occupation, then an occupying force has the responsibility of providing safety and stability to the occupied lands. And Hamas, in that context, would be a barrier to that.

It grew spontaneously in a relative time of peace before the October attacks. They are financed and supported from abroad - they won’t ‘dissipate’ unless they are forced to.

I think communication and general moral consensus matters. If people voiced their dislike and contempt for Hamas half as much as they do for Israel, it could have the effect of diminishing Hamas’ purpose for continuing this war.
But I think a lot of commenters actually support Hamas, and the violence it keeps doing. But they won’t actually admit that. So it makes it hard to understand.

Negotiated ceasefires would always have conditions. That’s not an ‘unconditional surrender’.

Ever heard of nuance?

Israel would stop if Hamas unconditionally surrendered and released all hostages. They would have to, and they would. And they would continue to occupy Gaza and be assholes, but the violence would go way down and the aid embargo would be lifted.
If you all are so condemning of Hamas, why is the response to ‘if only Hamas would surrender’ so angry and attacking of Israel. Why deflect this way? Yes if Israel weren’t doing bad stuff there would be less bad stuff happening; but that’s a different thing.
You react vehemently against the notion that Hamas should surrender but claim you agree Hamas should surrender.

In that context, Israel has an obligation to root out and destroy Hamas in Gaza.

Of course they mean the same thing, just to differing degrees. What else do you think the first headline is referring to?

There certainly is a lack of talk. The bulk of Trump supporters only get ‘news’ from a curated rightwing media source. They do not know about the situation in Gaza or the U.S. support for it. They do not know that Trump is threatening Canada’s sovereignty. They are not all inherently evil for supporting the right wing, they are ignorant of reality. Communication and education is key. And we can’t beat the billionaires unless we find a way to allow truthful communication to actually happen.

So if Hamas unconditionally surrendered and all the hostages were returned, you think Isreal would continue to attack and starve Gaza? They simply couldn’t - that would actually lose support from the U.S. if that happened.

BS. Netanyahu may have encouraged Hamas at some point , but they only continue because they want to hurt Israel and they don’t care about the starving children in Gaza any more than Israel does. Look on these message boards; many people refuse to put any blame on Hamas. Just me suggesting Hamas should surrender evokes responses only about how Isreal is responsible. It seems that the supporters of Gaza don’t want Hamas to surrender - they say they don’t like children starving, but seemingly not so much that they’d like Hamas to surrender. It’s really strange when you think about it.

Yes that would stop it too. But there’s not much likelihood of that. Whereas Hamas is clearly not having any success, and prolonging this war is only causing such terrible misery. And yes that’s because the Israelis don’t care about the misery of the people of Gaza, they only care about defeating Hamas. There’s a lot of evil. But if Hanas fully surrendered, this would stop immediately. And they have nothing to gain by keeping us going.