Honestly, the American far-right unknowingly dismantling US global hegemony piece by piece is pretty sick
they’re doing it very knowingly… they wrote an entire nearly 1000 page fucking document detailing exactly what they’re doing in excruciating detail.
the fascists == idiots trope needs to go bc that’s exactly what makes them dangerous. lots of these fuckers are quite intelligent and conniving. you should be weary.
Oh, we’re weary all right.
Oh yeah, they have a plan all right.
Now, the plan isn’t any good and everyone gets screwed, even them.
But it is, technically speaking, a plan!
the fascists == idiots trope needs to go bc that’s exactly what makes them dangerous.
That plan doesn’t work. It assumes that the rest of the world just sits back and takes their crap lying down which isn’t happening. They genuinely think they can just take over Greenland and nothing would happen. I don’t know if they’re intelligent or not, but they’re definitely delusional.
They’ve handily proven time and time again in recent memory how they can in fact just do things and the rest of the world will sit back and take it lying down, though. That’s the problem. Anyone who thinks it’s just an America issue or something like that grievously misunderstands the tenuous house of cards that the pax americana and era of modern peace is built upon. Realistically, how far are you willing to go to prevent fascism? Would you die for it? Would you crawl through the trenches in a land many seas away from home? Some people might say yes but realistically most Westerners and others would never dare give up their creature comforts. It’s not delusional to think the world can change in the way they suggest precisely because they’ve suggested it - that is the hallmark of the fascist movement and what ties their collective ethos together, a philosophy of domination in all aspects.
Idk in short, I agree that yeah these people are certainly morally bankrupt. Lots of them are delusional. Any group of people has some like that. That doesn’t mean we should strawman them. There’s lots of idiots and they might think the US could invade Greenland without causing a international crisis. Either fortunately or unfortunately, these aren’t the people saying that the US wants to own Greenland or that we should go to war with Iran, for example.
The people who control and run this movement are not delusional. They’re dangerous.
The followers of fascist movements are alsolute morons. The leaders are ruthless and capable opportunists.
you should be weary.
Oh don’t worry, we’re really freaking tired and weary of this nonsense.
But we should also be wary of how sneaky these bastards are.
Wary, though I think we’re all weary at this point as well.
i made the freudian slip originally before publishing the comment but decided to keep it in because it felt apt. lol
One goal was to increase defense burden-sharing with allies. but withdraw from NATO wasn’t a project goal.
Between this and USAID I can’t say I’m unhappy about it. Of course dismantling imperialism is a good thing, but I also don’t understand. The republicans should be all about illegal invasions, bombing civilians, and installing puppet dictators, so they should love USAID and NATO, yet here we are. Is this just incompetence?
Just when I warmed up to the idea that NATO was a necessary evil to counter Putin’s worse evil.
It also is a necessity to keep the USA from going Putin… Trump wouldn’t stop wanting to be a King. As a King he’d work on becoming the Emperor. As Caesar Donald the step to becoming the god emperor isn’t that big…
As Caesar Donald the step to becoming the god emperor isn’t that big…
Kinda just hoping we can skip all that and go straight to the “Et tu, Bruté?” bit.
It is but losing the traitor in the assembly is not a bad thing. Now if Europe could jailbreak all that American tech they have in their military gear too, that would be nice.
I keep getting this sinking feeling that this is all leading up to a precise and coordinated attack of evil.
Russia bombards the EU, the US attacks Greenland and Canada, while Israel finally bulldozes Gaza and Iran. China takes Taiwan and the south sea.
All at the same time so NATO is overwhelmed and can’t decisively defend it all without risking spreading too thin. No matter what happens, one of the bad guys gains ground.
I honestly have no idea if this is even possible, it’s based on a dream I had a few weeks ago.
Disturbing thought though.
Israel, Iran, China, and Taiwan are all outside the scope of NATO.
Canada, Greenland, and most of the EU do fall under NATO protection though. It’s a defensive alliance with well defined boundaries, member countries may have interests in other parts of the world, but since none of Israel, Iran, China, or Taiwan are NATO members it’s not something NATO deals with. Unless one of those countries were to attack NATO of course.
Russia is in no shape to make war on Europe right now, they have their hands full with just Ukraine, and face economic collapse. Iran is in a similar situation. Trump has stopped his 51st state talk, but he’s insane so you never know. China invading Taiwan? Trump is weak (he only talks tough) so you never know. But China is authoritarian and as we’ve seen of late authoritarian regimes don’t seem to be doing well running military campaigns so it’s possible they don’t even have the capability of invading Taiwan.
China might have a 2 year window coming up where it’s even possible to invade Taiwan. Their military has modernized a lot, but they probably aren’t quite to the point of being able to pull it off. At the same time, they are looking at a demographic cliff from the long term implications of the One Child policy.
It’s possible this window as already closed. That said, authoritarian regimes have started wars before that were terrible ideas.
Yeah with how effective drones have been in Ukraine (especially in hitting the Russian Navy) I kinda doubt they’ll have the capability. I feel like Taiwan is probably developing the capability to mass produce drones right now. They most definitely have the technology. Amphibious invasions are really hard to pull off, and China doesn’t have a lot of naval experience. And nobody has ever done it with a thousand drone boats in the water.
And yup, authoritarians do stupid things with their military, we saw that already with Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. So the question is, how stupid is Xi Jinping? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
I think China is not stupid. If anything military wise they’ll do against Taiwan, it will be likely to blockade them.
Russia is losing against Ukraine, the fuck they gonna do against EU, unless they use nukes in which case who cares, it’s game over
Russia has an army that is capable of invading another country. The only country in NATO that have done that is the US. I don’t think Russia invading the whole of the EU is a realistic possibility but grabbing a few ex Soviet countries off the border…
Russia has an army that is capable of invading another country.
As I said I am pretty sure they can’t even properly invade ukraine and are struggling there.
The only country in NATO that have done that is the US.
I am not an expert on this but I am pretty sure a bunch of EU countries joined the US in afghanistan.
Of the 190 odd countries in the world the UK have invaded something like 175 of them.
You are talking complete nonsense.
methods aside. Tiny UK is pretty impressive actually when you think about it, they “united” so many countries all over the globe across the ocean.
I quite like this video over what Brits contributed to the modern world. Most people don’t know. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcZQS4LBugk
Also UK returned most of their colonies back to the people unlike some huge countries like russia which is still trying to expand its colonies and territories in this modern day and age. and other huge countries making claims on Greenland or Taiwan.
You’re right, let me rephrase that. The US is the only NATO country with living experience in invading non-neighboring countries with current methods, doctrines and technologies. That’s not a simple thing to do and that know-how is extremely valuable if you want to invade someone else.
yup Russia using nukes anywhere near russia like Ukraine would mean the radiation will spread to russia too. so yes, it is game over.
The thing is the EU is mostly concerned about Europe, while the US wants to play world police. So if China would invade Taiwan and NATO is without the US, I’m not sure they are going to get involved, it would open the gate for Russia. If the US is still part of NATO I’m not sure what will happen as it’s not an article 5 event. So the other NATO countries are not automatically involved even if the US is.
ruzzia has had it’s teeth pulled by Ukraine, so despite the barbarian posturing, they won’t be starting another war for a few years.
Israel might bulldoze Gaza and maybe a few Mashriq countries, but it would suffocate on Iran. That’s a fucking big country.
Graveyard of empires for a reason. They can try to OORAH!! MISSLES AWAY!!! Iran all they want, the resulting occupation will NEVER be a peaceful one, as there will ALWAYS be rebels in the hills and deserts.
17th biggest in the world. I was surprised when I learned that.
NATO isn’t gonna defend Taiwan or Iran. The US will defend Taiwan, Russia will defend Iran. NATO has no interest in either. NATO will defend Canada and Greenland as best they can.
I can see trump believing something so stupid as that, and putin might saber rattle about it, but the majority of the world, and china/india especially in this situation, probably would not go along with it. Europe still has functioning nuclear capabilities. Putin does not want nukes hitting his country, full stop. China does not want a nuclear situation kicking off with their neighbor to the north, and knows that the US under trump would likely turn on them despite a war ruining both countries. India no more wants china controlling the waters to their east than the countries immediately around those waters do, and would likely cause issues, which china also doesn’t want. As we’ve seen in the modern times with ukraine and some of the middle east conflicts and the india/pakistan border, nuclear powers tiptoe around anything that resembles direct conflict. The recent dogfight over the border was a pretty good idea of how reserved even ‘open’ conflict is.
So putin is likely not going to do anything more than a symbolic grunt at his western border, and china will just slowly weather down taiwan if the u.s. is withdrawing its influence. The idea of reunification isn’t THAT taboo in taiwan, and the candidates for it gather a decent chunk of votes. If the u.s. starts acting like a bitch around the world (oh, gee, just look at what’s happening right now), the sentiment towards it and china could easily see a rapid shift.
Many valid points, but having nukes generally only prevents getting nuked, not attacks by other means. At least as long as either party still has something to lose.
I agree with you, but my tinfoil hat is telling me to dig a shelter, preserve food and start making ammo. You know, for game hunting.
Wait, “attack of evil”? The US is literally funding and arming the genocide in Gaza, the US IS the greatest evil. You may argue for Russia being a close second (discounting Israel), but how is the US not absolutely the worst by any metric? How many millions did it murder in Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, and how many millions more were murdered under its approval in Southeast Asia(Suharto) or Latin America (Pinochet)?
I feel like all those Leaders that met at the Hague last week should sit down and watch Rollins Band “Liar” music video.
I’m in no way supporting Russia or Republicans when I say this but NATO since its inception has been used for Western imperialist goals and establishing US global hegemony, so in no way do I support its existence anymore
You are in every way supporting both Russia and the Republicans saying that. If It wasn’t for nato, the Baltic states and maybe even some central European countries wouldn’t exist by now.
Sorry I’m not supporting an imperialist military organization that bombs civilians and has had nazi leadership
LOL Pootin troll spotted. Shouldn’t you be digging babushka a fresh latrine pit, Yuri? The old one is full and Pootang needs it to recruit more of YOU from.
Are you ok? I can condemn the US/NATO while also condemning the current Russian regime
So, you don’t support Pootin and ruzzia, then?
You don’t have to support nato if you don’t want to… just don’t say you are not supporting Russia. Nato has one purpose and it’s to stop the Soviet union / Russia from taking over Europe.
NATOs other purpose is to stop socialism/communism from existing and emerging anywhere, unjustifiably. The Soviet Union wasn’t going to take over Europe, that was a lie created by the US and others. The US was the aggressor during the Cold war working overtime to sabotage any socialist nation because of “freedoms” and “democracy.”
Russia has been a capitalist country since the fall of the USSR (goal accomplished I guess) but the West has still wanted to destroy them even before the Ukraine conflict. Yes what Russia is doing is wrong and they need to be stopped, but also the US, EU, and NATO.
Yep. Definitely a Pootin troll.
Nope I don’t support Putin at all. I’m glad I stopped thinking like you.
I doubt that you think much at all. Just take the rubles, and peddle the crap from the white board in the data centre in St Petersburg…
As someone from a country take over by the Soviet union… Lol.
Lol well the Soviets did have to move through Eastern Europe to Berlin to fight the nazi invasion
They also had to drink water when they were thirsty. Both of which are irrelevant to decades of brutal occupation.
Which country are you from, my friend?
This took longer than I thought it would. It seemed like a priority during trump’s 1st term, then it stalled.
Given some of Putin’s comments lately, he seems increasingly restless. I wonder if this is related to that?
He’s preparing to attack the Baltics.
Based on news lately cracks on Russian economy start to show and their meat grinder in Ukraine crawls forward with massive casualties. At this rate they can’t attack a garden shed.
Putin himself can preparen and wish to conquer whatever he wants but as long as the little remains what’s left of Soviet Union might is scattered around Ukraine, Russia can’t really do anything. If Europe can’t get their shit together and Russia eventually wins (after several years at this pace) in Ukraine it would still take years to build up any kind of military force against anyone and even then they’d need to fight against whole EU and whatever remains are left of NATO.
I would say the rest of NATO should be able to hold against Russia for sure, especially in its current state.
I would just be worried about short-term problems because of disrupted logistics due to the US withdrawing. Or maybe that other countries would follow the US in leaving.
But in the end, that is just my guess.
Nato for sure can stand its ground even without the US. But Russia doesn’t need to blitzkrieg and win huge swathes of territory in order to accomplish their goals of destabilizing the EU. Everyone saying “they’re already losing in Ukraine, they wouldn’t dream of opening another front” obviously hasn’t studied Russian history.
I think the biggest deciding factor in whether this happens or not is actually China. Ostensibly, they wouldn’t risk losing a huge market like the EU but afaik things aren’t going well over there either, so if Xi wants to be the strongman Putin is desperately trying to be just in order to hold on to power, I can absolutely see them choosing Russia’s side in a global conflict.
This bill is going nowhere, and Trump just said at the summit that he would honor article 5.
I know Trump often changes his mind, but the summit showed that Trump has definitely changed course for the better regarding NATO.Not sure how much I trust Trump, but yeah Mike Lee (who introduced the bill) is someone who just likes introducing bills. The fact no one else joined him means this article and conversation is about all he could expect to actually happen.
Bullshit. This isn’t the game you play with the orange turd.
As directed by Vladamir Putin.
How would the military industrial complex not kill Trump if this were true?
Jail, I imagine
Yes, please. I’m sick of my country working with these degenerates yankees
Can the US get invaded yet? Someone needs to bring us some freedom…
I hope so. The united snakes should not have any influence for all the countries they bombed and couped for decades
US: “NATO members need to up their defense spending!”
NATO: “Okay, we’ll do it.”
US: “Actually, We’re leaving NATO.” 🤡
Trump isn’t wrong that European NATO countries have needed to increase their defence spending for a long time. It remains to be seen which European NATO countries will actually do so or can: words are easy. (Just call Trump ‘Daddy’ and agree to whatever he says lol before continuing with whatever we intended to do all along anyway!)
Trump and many other Americans in positions of power obviously have been Russian assets to various degrees for a long time now, but the last thing Russia wants is Trump’s actions forcing Europe to spend more on defence, and end their reliance on the US.
Russia would prefer complacent European NATO/EU nations relying on America, who would pull the rug out from under them - similar to what America has done to Ukraine - when Russia was in a position to attack NATO further. I guess the timing just won’t be right for that outcome, unless Trump forces a third term, so Putin will be happy with what he has achieved.
As well as a Russian asset Trump is also just a bit of a moron who doesn’t see the value in the US dollar as global reserve currency. Maybe he sees the rise of China and thinks ‘this is what the US needs to do again. Go back to developing world status and become the world’s factory in order to rise later as China is now’. Trump doesn’t appear have much in the way of strategic thinking. He appears to have an unchangeable very out of date world view, and more he is driven by the pathological impulse to acquire everything he can for himself. The uber-pig.
This return to developing world status would be great for billionaires but not for your average American, never mind brown skinned Americans, women, the poor (ironically Trump’s base I guess), and other minorities.
I suppose I have rendered myself persona-non-grata in the US now for the next several years and probably beyond (once border policies are put in place they don’t change easily) with this post. Pity I like the Americans I have known and always wanted to visit.
It’s a common American view that the other countries weren’t spending “enough”, whereas from the perspective of everyone else on the planet it’s America that’s spending a hugely disproportionate amount of wealth on killing, and just expecting its allies to do the same.
My comment on Europe needing to spend more was simply in terms of the reality of facing down a belligerent Russia.
Americans generally do not seem to understand that their massive military spending is actually in support of and necessary as long as they wanted the dollar as global reserve currency. This doesn’t surprise me and isn’t really a criticism (we have similar issues in the UK). The American people I have come across online appear to have grown up being told they are exceptional, the best, apparently without actually being told the reality of 20th century economic history.
The world was forced to buy oil in dollars due to the arrangement the US made with the Saudis, meaning the world had to buy US debt. Obviously in this scenario the US print the money other people are borrowing facilitating the transfer of wealth that is coming to an end. When the likes of Saddam Hussein said he was going to sell oil in Euros he got a good ol’ dose of freedom. The 9/11 attackers were Saudis but the US would never touch them due to this arrangement. Anyway, this is why US defence spending has been what it has been. It isn’t the case that the rest of the world should have paid more. In fact the rest of the world paid the US deficit at least in part by this mechanism. Trump is bringing those halcyon days to a premature end intentionally.
If/when the US doesn’t spend that money on military support of regions like Europe the US are reneging on their agreement and so they no longer get that global reserve currency status, everybody sells US debt, the dollar is greatly weakened (which might be what Trump wants, in terms of making US made goods affordable for people outside the US, whether misguided or not) and presumably interest rates rise considerably. Moving away from SWIFT and the WTO are 100% unambiguous signals of the EU’s intent to ‘dedollarise’.
This reserve currency status is roughly what has given America a large amount of unearned global wealth post ww2, and more or less allowed boomers to buy a home on one wage etc. Changing it is a huge upheaval on US life that will last many decades. Military spending has supported the dollar, Trump is more or less throwing that away.
I’m pretty sure that last decade or so has shown that Europe doesn’t spend enough. It’s not just Russia’s invasion. Military action in Libya was reliant on the US to sustain more than a few days of action.
USA showing again how they are traitors and cowards.
They want out because it’s stopping to be a market for the US military industries, as Europe increasingly wants to spend domestically. As such, it now has very little interest.
US: We want you to spend more on defence!
Europe: Ok, we will buy more, from our own companies!
US: That’s not what I meant! I’m going home!They want out because it’s stopping to be a market for the US military industries, as Europe increasingly wants to spend domestically. As such, it now has very little interest.
This is only happening because Drumpf is meddling with deliveries and contracts. It makes America an unreliable supplier and partner when a contract or agreement means nothing because the orange shiteweasel may change his mind tomorrow, and redirect the arms that you already paid for…
They’re also threatening to annex or outright invade long-term allies. You don’t want to be in a war where the people you’re fighting against are the only ones who can maintain and replace your weapons.
And yet the UK is buying more American jets 🤦
BAE Systems is a major supplier.
They wanted to leave during Trump’s first term because it helps Russia’s war with Europe
The increased spending is just meant to make the incumbents unpopular so the Russian backed candidates can win
That’s probably a factor as well.
Cause and effect are a little twisted here. Trump was already undermining NATO during is first term by saying European members should spend more. They didn’t agree at the time, but the Ukraine War proved that Europe really did need a more domestic MIC, and now they are.
Trump wasn’t saying it in the first place because he thought it would help NATO.
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Oh boy this Putin guy sounds powerful! He must have 64 bit washing machine CPUs!
Never take responsibility for the state of your society and country.
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Mike Lee? The guy who proposed a federal porn ban?
