Nothing drastic necessary, just a lot of little steps:
Step by step establishing a normal dialog again.
Something drastic would be a civil war, and that would also not unite you instantly again, but just would let you reconsider the tiny-step-by-tiny-step talking-to-each-other-thing from a different perspective again.
Please don’t choose the drastic way. Also because the rest of the world still relies on you too much (speaking as someone from outside the US)
I am only exhibiting that specific rational-humane dimension currently because I have the feeling, that Lemmy is too much of an left echo chamber at the moment drifting to much into extreme territory.
That doesn’t solve anything, but is part of the problem.
As is the same process on platforms like truth.social. Just the other way round.
I am actually part of what is trying to bring another (and be it just a single…) additional dimension to a currently totally one-dimensional discourse.
Do you have any idea what’s actually going on? Or are you going based on your feels? Lemmy isn’t America, and America isn’t Lemmy, so this being an echo chamber (which it isn’t) is moot and has nothing to do with our current situation in the US. You seem hell bent on this thread to really both sides this and imply the left is responsible for the shooting and ignoring everything the right has and will do. And if you think your simple solutions are the way then why the fuck hasn’t it worked in the past almost 11 years at this point?
Have you ever had a long conversation with a Trumper? I don’t think you have. And I speak up for Trump voters a lot more than I should because I know some women I care about who aren’t deep thinkers and who follow the men who surround and control their lives. I’ve gotten them to bend ever so slightly on some things.
But the method you’re suggesting is not viable at this stage.
**They’re on to “this is good vs evil” and guess who’s evil? Not them. It’s game set match. I don’t think we’re coming back now and I’m normally toxically optimistic on this topic. **
I’ve been trying to wear down Trump supporters in various arenas for years. You can get them to come almost to a rational conclusion then they get their MAGA propoganda update and it’s back to square one. And they all seem to get their upload at the same time which I’m still trying to figure that one out. And it’s not Trump himself because they don’t actually listen directly to Trump. But they’ll all magically have the same talking points and claim to be first hand account eye witnesses of whatever said phenomenon is. Which is wild bc they all sound like broken records and swear they saw X y z with their own eyes. Which is clear bullshit for anyone who confronts multiple of them from work to school to the bar to family get togethers. They all saw those litter boxes with their own eyes (it was their kid, their niece, their friends kids school) and they all saw the Venezuelan gangs roaming the streets. They were there! They saw it!!! It was in (name their nearest city)!!! Just to name a few examples.
I challenge you to sit down and have the small conversations you’re advocating for with a Trump voter. Really sit and listen to them. No confrontation, no arguing your point. Just listen to them. You’ll understand what I mean. But this new “good vs evil” is final stage stuff. We’re cooked.
I challenge you to sit down and have the small conversations you’re advocating for with a Trump voter. Really sit and listen to them. No confrontation, no arguing your point. Just listen to them. You’ll understand what I mean. But this new “good vs evil” is final stage stuff. We’re cooked.
The talking points downloads are not new - at least since back when Ronnie Raygun got rid of the Fairness Doctrine and hate radio and, later, Faux News, came on the scene, you’d hear them all saying the same shit. This was well under way by the mid-90s.
The nutpicking strategy is used by elites that run things like hate radio/Faux News - gives them their newest outrage strawman to rail against, so you’ll see evidence of that everywhere once you know what is happening.
And the “good vs. evil” thing - goes back to at least Newt and teaching others to do it. He had teaching materials way back in the early 90s, instructing all the nasty things to label their “enemies” with, while calling Confederates all the nice words.
The road to hell was paved by cons starting at least under Ronnie Raygun in the 80s, with Newt and his GOPAC really accelerating things in the 90s. Taco is only the latest symptom and like everything else in his life, he didn’t build shit, but slapped his stupid gaudy brand on it.
I absolutely agree with that and can see it. People think when Trump disappears things will improve but I am very skeptical on that front. He’s a very natural conclusion to a long line of dominos. I don’t know what’s next but I’m almost more scared someone competent will step into his place. We can’t even handle the incompetent megalomaniac, what happens when someone intelligent and calculating takes his place?
Yeah, I’m worried, too. Once the asshats have had China white like Taco being mainlined, they ain’t going back to something like Romney or Marco.
The minute they find someone just as venal as Taco, they’ll swoon for them, and the next one might not be quite as stupid and as vain as Taco. Likely they will be without normal human empathy and have toxic levels of narcissism but if they find someone that can also do more than just be so thirsty to be in front of the camera always and all the time, we are truly fucked.
I think that Thiel is already in that place: from above, pulling the puppet’s strings. That is the safest place for a fascist to be, because the consequences tend to only find the puppets on the stage.
If the time comes to clean house, we must look beyond the play.
Something drastic would have to change to unite people with the people who want them dead.
Nothing drastic necessary, just a lot of little steps:
Step by step establishing a normal dialog again.
Something drastic would be a civil war, and that would also not unite you instantly again, but just would let you reconsider the tiny-step-by-tiny-step talking-to-each-other-thing from a different perspective again.
Please don’t choose the drastic way. Also because the rest of the world still relies on you too much (speaking as someone from outside the US)
You should be a diplomat. You’d bring world peace with your one-dimensional logic.
I am only exhibiting that specific rational-humane dimension currently because I have the feeling, that Lemmy is too much of an left echo chamber at the moment drifting to much into extreme territory.
That doesn’t solve anything, but is part of the problem.
As is the same process on platforms like truth.social. Just the other way round.
I am actually part of what is trying to bring another (and be it just a single…) additional dimension to a currently totally one-dimensional discourse.
Do you have any idea what’s actually going on? Or are you going based on your feels? Lemmy isn’t America, and America isn’t Lemmy, so this being an echo chamber (which it isn’t) is moot and has nothing to do with our current situation in the US. You seem hell bent on this thread to really both sides this and imply the left is responsible for the shooting and ignoring everything the right has and will do. And if you think your simple solutions are the way then why the fuck hasn’t it worked in the past almost 11 years at this point?
Have you ever had a long conversation with a Trumper? I don’t think you have. And I speak up for Trump voters a lot more than I should because I know some women I care about who aren’t deep thinkers and who follow the men who surround and control their lives. I’ve gotten them to bend ever so slightly on some things.
But the method you’re suggesting is not viable at this stage.
**They’re on to “this is good vs evil” and guess who’s evil? Not them. It’s game set match. I don’t think we’re coming back now and I’m normally toxically optimistic on this topic. **
I’ve been trying to wear down Trump supporters in various arenas for years. You can get them to come almost to a rational conclusion then they get their MAGA propoganda update and it’s back to square one. And they all seem to get their upload at the same time which I’m still trying to figure that one out. And it’s not Trump himself because they don’t actually listen directly to Trump. But they’ll all magically have the same talking points and claim to be first hand account eye witnesses of whatever said phenomenon is. Which is wild bc they all sound like broken records and swear they saw X y z with their own eyes. Which is clear bullshit for anyone who confronts multiple of them from work to school to the bar to family get togethers. They all saw those litter boxes with their own eyes (it was their kid, their niece, their friends kids school) and they all saw the Venezuelan gangs roaming the streets. They were there! They saw it!!! It was in (name their nearest city)!!! Just to name a few examples.
I challenge you to sit down and have the small conversations you’re advocating for with a Trump voter. Really sit and listen to them. No confrontation, no arguing your point. Just listen to them. You’ll understand what I mean. But this new “good vs evil” is final stage stuff. We’re cooked.
The talking points downloads are not new - at least since back when Ronnie Raygun got rid of the Fairness Doctrine and hate radio and, later, Faux News, came on the scene, you’d hear them all saying the same shit. This was well under way by the mid-90s.
The nutpicking strategy is used by elites that run things like hate radio/Faux News - gives them their newest outrage strawman to rail against, so you’ll see evidence of that everywhere once you know what is happening.
And the “good vs. evil” thing - goes back to at least Newt and teaching others to do it. He had teaching materials way back in the early 90s, instructing all the nasty things to label their “enemies” with, while calling Confederates all the nice words.
The road to hell was paved by cons starting at least under Ronnie Raygun in the 80s, with Newt and his GOPAC really accelerating things in the 90s. Taco is only the latest symptom and like everything else in his life, he didn’t build shit, but slapped his stupid gaudy brand on it.
I absolutely agree with that and can see it. People think when Trump disappears things will improve but I am very skeptical on that front. He’s a very natural conclusion to a long line of dominos. I don’t know what’s next but I’m almost more scared someone competent will step into his place. We can’t even handle the incompetent megalomaniac, what happens when someone intelligent and calculating takes his place?
Yeah, I’m worried, too. Once the asshats have had China white like Taco being mainlined, they ain’t going back to something like Romney or Marco.
The minute they find someone just as venal as Taco, they’ll swoon for them, and the next one might not be quite as stupid and as vain as Taco. Likely they will be without normal human empathy and have toxic levels of narcissism but if they find someone that can also do more than just be so thirsty to be in front of the camera always and all the time, we are truly fucked.
I think that Thiel is already in that place: from above, pulling the puppet’s strings. That is the safest place for a fascist to be, because the consequences tend to only find the puppets on the stage.
If the time comes to clean house, we must look beyond the play.
He’s also extremely unlikeable and awkward as fuck… But I guess he knows his limitations better than elon