a remote and uninhabited island located 400 miles from Honolulu
Mokumanamana sits at the boundary between “‘pō,’ the darkness, and ‘au,’ the light.” When a Native Hawaiian dies, their soul travels up near Mokumanamana, and after meeting their ancestors there, they potentially get to advance into the great beyond with them in the dark waters west of the island.
okey-doke.
So, uninhabited (at this point means not viable for habitation) and it’s a religious site that probably no one goes on a pilgrimage to? Fuckit.
Uninhabited islands are not uninhabitable and the only value of a place is not whether people can live on it. The northwestern Hawaiian islands are a marine sanctuary valued even though barely anyone goes there. This argument is like saying the deep Everglades are unexploited, so we might as well dump our trash there.
You are steadfastly dedicated to not getting the point while simultaneously whining about downvotes. Have an angry day where you think everyone else is the problem.
Okay, so let’s put it this way. If the federal govt decided that people could take dumps in Your grandparents garage without asking, you would protest right? And if they said “well, your grandparents don’t live in The house so it shouldn’t be a problem”- it’d be a problem right?
And then someone posts the article on here and someone types out a defense “yeah but it’s a garage, its uninhabitable” and then later “WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND?” …. You’re getting this right?
The Gulf of Mexico is also a bad place, but unfortunately it wasn’t a marine monument and the residents there didn’t fight to protect it. We in Hawaii care about this island because it’s our responsibility and all of our islands are interconnected. You don’t seem to know shit about the area or that scientists don’t view SpaceX’s reckless R&D as an unabashed good and then go up on your soapbox to act like you in your ignorance are the only rational mind.
For what it’s worth, I agree with you 100%. I’d love to see Musk fail in every one of his business endeavors, but if we’re going to drop space garbage over the planet, an uninhabited island seems like a great place to do it. The fact that a small group of people has superstitious ideas about that small patch of land should be irrelevant.
this attitude is the problem with religion though. it’s not that the religion isn’t guided by science, but the idea that one groups needs supercede another group’s. the hawaiians are the native keepers of this ecosystem. for thousands of years they have been there maintaining it. now because another group wants it for something else we’re just supposed to ignore them? fuck that. this is the same attitude that gave us the crusades, the rape of africa, the potato famine, and boarding schools for indigenous people in north america. it doesn’t matter that those acts were done by people who claimed to have god on their side and you claim there is no god.
what matters is those acts were done by people claiming to be more advanced than the backwards people they were doing it to, which is exactly what you are advocating for here
Maybe the down votes are because not even 2 paragraphs from the one you quoted, they continue saying that they also have permission to drop debris all around the inhabitated islands.
Along with allowing Musk to rain schrapnel down near Mokumanamana, the FAA also granted SpaceX the ability to do so around Hawaii’s eight main islands — which are populated with American citizens who may end up having their houses or property hit by debris — and portions of the Papahānaumokuākea marine national monument, a UNESCO world heritage site that’s home to thousands of diverse species of animal and plant life.
bbbut the historical site! They are dropping it over the Gulf of Mexico right now so why shouldn’t we move the debris field? Is there really a bigger problem doing it here or is it because Hawaiians are just pissed off they will be the recipients now?
the indigenous people have been heavily colonized. being a us state does not preclude you from some rich fuck showing up and ruining the ecosystem you maintain
Are they Americans or not? I know that’s a loaded question but we have to dump space trash somewhere if we are going to continue launching. We’re not allowed to dump the trash in international waters AFAIK so we have to pick somewhere in our borders.
you already dismissed this in another thread, but seriously, we don’t need spacex poluting our oceans and orbits like this. just because nasa isn’t doing launches isn’t reason to give a corporation carte blanche to do whatever in the name of “progress” while stymying real science. we could do, as a planet, with fewer launches than are being done and taking a longer view of science and research than quarterly profits.
Nobody feels like having a debate about your militant atheism, hence downvotes without comments. Please don’t see this as an invitation for said debate either. I don’t care. You’re either being intentionally edgy or willfully ignorant, neither of which are the base for a fruitful conversation.
i believe this is what they’re referring to. it’s specifically an atheist take; it’s just not a very nice one
i generally have disdain for religious crap, but do agree that simply writing people beliefs off as open for dumping waste on is probably not in the spirit of live and let live
I’m unaware, AFAIK SpaceX is the leading launch provider in the world, taking the place of NASA. Is that a good thing? Probably not but if we’re not going to fund it at a government level someone has to do it.
okey-doke.
So, uninhabited (at this point means not viable for habitation) and it’s a religious site that probably no one goes on a pilgrimage to? Fuckit.
Uninhabited islands are not uninhabitable and the only value of a place is not whether people can live on it. The northwestern Hawaiian islands are a marine sanctuary valued even though barely anyone goes there. This argument is like saying the deep Everglades are unexploited, so we might as well dump our trash there.
What the fuck? They are literally dumping this shit in the Gulf of Mexico RIGHT NOW.
Why is this shitty little island out in the middle of nowhere a problem?!
You are steadfastly dedicated to not getting the point while simultaneously whining about downvotes. Have an angry day where you think everyone else is the problem.
Yeah, that’s what I’m worried about.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND?
Okay, so let’s put it this way. If the federal govt decided that people could take dumps in Your grandparents garage without asking, you would protest right? And if they said “well, your grandparents don’t live in The house so it shouldn’t be a problem”- it’d be a problem right? And then someone posts the article on here and someone types out a defense “yeah but it’s a garage, its uninhabitable” and then later “WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND?” …. You’re getting this right?
Cool. Who’s garage do we shit in then?
Because if we’re going to shit in a garage we need a garage to shit in. So is that garage in South Texas or out in The Pacific?
basically, no one has stated why this place is not a good place but the Gulf of Mexico is what we’re using now so… just keep using it?
The Gulf of Mexico is also a bad place, but unfortunately it wasn’t a marine monument and the residents there didn’t fight to protect it. We in Hawaii care about this island because it’s our responsibility and all of our islands are interconnected. You don’t seem to know shit about the area or that scientists don’t view SpaceX’s reckless R&D as an unabashed good and then go up on your soapbox to act like you in your ignorance are the only rational mind.
You are the first person to articulate WHY you don’t want it there, no one else has bothered.
What’s the deal with this patch of ocean? Is it special in some other way than NIMBY cloaked in religion?
For what it’s worth, I agree with you 100%. I’d love to see Musk fail in every one of his business endeavors, but if we’re going to drop space garbage over the planet, an uninhabited island seems like a great place to do it. The fact that a small group of people has superstitious ideas about that small patch of land should be irrelevant.
this attitude is the problem with religion though. it’s not that the religion isn’t guided by science, but the idea that one groups needs supercede another group’s. the hawaiians are the native keepers of this ecosystem. for thousands of years they have been there maintaining it. now because another group wants it for something else we’re just supposed to ignore them? fuck that. this is the same attitude that gave us the crusades, the rape of africa, the potato famine, and boarding schools for indigenous people in north america. it doesn’t matter that those acts were done by people who claimed to have god on their side and you claim there is no god.
what matters is those acts were done by people claiming to be more advanced than the backwards people they were doing it to, which is exactly what you are advocating for here
Yeah, lemmy seems to love religion as long as it’s not white or Catholic.
I suspect people would also be upset if Dumbo McNazi got a government contract to destroy a 500 year old cathedral to put up a nazi truck factory.
I suspect it’s more because of Elon Musk hate.
Maybe the down votes are because not even 2 paragraphs from the one you quoted, they continue saying that they also have permission to drop debris all around the inhabitated islands.
bbbut the historical site! They are dropping it over the Gulf of Mexico right now so why shouldn’t we move the debris field? Is there really a bigger problem doing it here or is it because Hawaiians are just pissed off they will be the recipients now?
“let’s just do some more colonialism! it will be fine”
You mean colonize Hawaii, a US state? How in the fuck do you even think this?
the indigenous people have been heavily colonized. being a us state does not preclude you from some rich fuck showing up and ruining the ecosystem you maintain
Are they Americans or not? I know that’s a loaded question but we have to dump space trash somewhere if we are going to continue launching. We’re not allowed to dump the trash in international waters AFAIK so we have to pick somewhere in our borders.
Gulf of Mexico or The Pacific. Pick one.
you already dismissed this in another thread, but seriously, we don’t need spacex poluting our oceans and orbits like this. just because nasa isn’t doing launches isn’t reason to give a corporation carte blanche to do whatever in the name of “progress” while stymying real science. we could do, as a planet, with fewer launches than are being done and taking a longer view of science and research than quarterly profits.
WTF. I want NASA back, I hate SpaceX. They suck. So what do we do?
Why not the Hamptons or Atherton?
Nobody feels like having a debate about your militant atheism, hence downvotes without comments. Please don’t see this as an invitation for said debate either. I don’t care. You’re either being intentionally edgy or willfully ignorant, neither of which are the base for a fruitful conversation.
I don’t understand where atheism came into this discussion. Is that just your pet issue you bring up all the time?
Get your eyes checked. If you can read the text and didn’t see where this was gonna go then there’s no point trying to explain it to you.
WTF? The guy is a dick for sure but leave atheists out of it. This term is just the go-to term for extremist religious asshats
i believe this is what they’re referring to. it’s specifically an atheist take; it’s just not a very nice one
i generally have disdain for religious crap, but do agree that simply writing people beliefs off as open for dumping waste on is probably not in the spirit of live and let live
Wait, what am I being ignorant about?
Doesn’t sound like you did a great deal of research.
lol no. I read this article.
You’re not a fan? That’s your stance after all this shit. Just not a fan? Not even an holy shit these two are despicable criminals and morally void?
One is a Nazi the other one is a child rapist. You’re going to have to do slightly better than “not a fan”.
Cool, obscure religion over people.
Billionaire toys ≠ people
Well then shut the whole thing down.
Ideally, yes.
No more satellites? No more space missions?
By spacex?
Yes. No more from them.
ruining earth does not justify the shit missions spacex does making our orbits more hostile to real science
I’m unaware, AFAIK SpaceX is the leading launch provider in the world, taking the place of NASA. Is that a good thing? Probably not but if we’re not going to fund it at a government level someone has to do it.