Normally, I would have advocated for the nationalization of Starlink and SpaceX as a matter of national and global security, but it’s not like the current American regime would do any better. I’m not going to be counting on them to investigate, let alone prosecute the affairs of this Russian junkie-stooge either.
Brain dead take honestly. Nationalization doesn’t work out 11 times out of 10. Look at NASA, SpaceX ran circles around them with a tini tiny fraction of the funding.
Nationalization does not mean it belongs to “us” it belongs to the government, an entity with motivations, incentives and desires different from “us” the people.
They did though, they massively cut costs of launching a rocket, which is again the real barrier for space exploration, especially commercially viable space exploration. It’s not clear that NASA could have done that seeing how their costs remained roughly the same for decades, but don’t take it from me, take it from NASA themselves:
Well the engineers at SpaceX are generally more responsible and more concerned with security than Tesla, if only because the hardware is so expensive. But yes, it could happen any of these days.
I mean, are you saying I should kiss the government’s boot? Do you think that any government, ever, is truly of the people for the people? Or is the government in the very moment that it defines itself as such becomes a separate entity with different motivations and incentives from the people? But yeah sure, let’s give it all to the government and then let’s also have elections surely the idiotic masses won’t vote in an idiot who will use all that power for no good. That’s the way to fix things.
Could you elaborate on how SpaceX “ran circles around NASA”, seeing as how NASA basically pioneered every single piece of modern space technology, and all SpaceX is doing is fumbling to rearrange it like Legos that explode on the launch pad? Lol
NASA basically pioneered every single piece of modern space technology
Hate to say it, but it was actually the Nazis who pioneered a lot of modern space technology. The US massively refined and improved it - often with the help of “rescued” Nazi scientists.
Then why does NASA, even before Trump, keep giving contracts to SpaceX? Space X did the one thing no government agency ever has an incentive to do: they lowered costs drastically. That’s the thing SpaceX did and that’s the only thing they need to do to run circles around NASA because that’s the true barrier to viable space exploration and mining etc.
The problem with a lot of people like you is that you cannot separate your disdain for a figurehead from the achievements of their organizations and you think attacking that is the same as attacking the figurehead. In a word you are simple. And you grossly oversimplify something like being able to catch the rocket again on landing, and it speaks volumes of your inability or unwillingness to be unbiased for political reasons as if that were going to change the objective truth. I don’t like Musk any more than you do, but what SpaceX has done NASA failed to do for decades. Nationalization is never a solution for anything and if it is please point to a single instance in which nationalizing anything led to cost reductions and increases in efficiency and better service. Because it’s never the case. Now I could argue in favor of public healthcare but that’s a very different from space exploration and tech.
Think objectively about things, don’t just say things to echo the hivemind.
They keep giving contracts to SpaceX because that’s the way the budgets are mandated from congress. They have X amount of money to distribute. Everything goes to generally the lowest bidder, and because there are only a handful of options, they have to keep using one contractor to produce their parts because it’s even more expensive to keep switching.
So drop the attitude. Usually the worst bidder gets the job, and it ends up costing more money after everything is said and done.
I think you severely discount NASA’s achievements. I would wager the stagnation of NASA and the subsequent rise of SpaceX was largely due to a lack of funding for NASA and waning public interest and lack of leadership.
I doubt the public would have tolerated the idea blowing up rockets until it worked as a good use of tax payer dollars. So did NASA fail us, or did the public fail NASA?
Think objectively about things, don’t just say things to echo the hivemind.
Fuck off with the notion that everything that contradicts your opinion is the “hivemind.” It is supremely condescending and toxic to pretend you’re the only one capable of independent thought.
Did I ever say or imply that everything that contradicts my opinion is of the hive mind? Because I don’t think I did. But this particular trope of trying to flatten any of the achievements of Musk’s companies simply because they are associated with him and calling for their nationalization is a tiresome talking point of the online “left” that simply parrots whatever everyone else “on their side” is supposed to think because it has leftie vibes. It’s as brain dead a take as any you would find on a Magatard community.
And I do need to point out that nationalization is not inherently socialist or left wing at all.
Yeah. These dumbasses forget that government funding is what originally set the stage and enabled any progress at all for private company-entrepreneurs who benefitted from all that publicly available knowledge, paid for by our tax dollars.
Innovation will slow to a trickle with all these government cuts because these companies literally can’t pay for anything not directly related to their bottom dollar, and none of them can see far enough past next quarter’s profits to invest in the future.
Human knowledge is always cumulative ya dunce. If we were to apply your logic we should instead give all of our science and research to Greece, China and the Middle East since they pioneered the innovations upon which civilization is built.
I’m not defending any government cuts or anything fyi. Im just saying the fact that nationalization doesn’t work, and it has never worked. Theres people who still think critically instead of relying on trying to score points for a team.
Human knowledge can be (and historically, often has been) destroyed as well as accumulated. It’s a myth originating with the Whigs that history always moved in the direction of progress. As recent political events in the US have shown, that’s not true.
nationalization doesn’t work, and it has never worked
Except, for example, in every developed-world health care delivery system, all of which massively outperform the private-sector US system both on cost and on outcomes. Likewise, fire departments, interstate highway systems, public water supplies, armies, etc, etc.
So before calling someone a dunce, you might do well to learn more about the many things you don’t know.
Well I never said anything about progress, I said it’s cumulative. We never destroy more than we have accumulated. None of the knowledge we have today would exist without the knowledge of our earliest of ancestors when Homo sapiens was still thousands of years away. That being said, looking at the sheer amount of time we’ve been accumulating knowledge even if we had a thousand years of absolute barbarity and massive ignorance, the statement that knowledge tends towards progress would still be true. The present is a blip in the scale of human history.
To address your other point. Yes I’ll admit that I was too universalistic in my argument in the heat of the moment so to speak. But the big caveat is that it does not necessarily lead to, and most always doesn’t lead to better service for end user. It’s a trade off in most cases. But I’ll never argue in favor of privatized healthcare or education for example. The loss in efficiency is simply not enough to justify the real human cost of the alternative. But cutting edge technology that is not essential, such as space travel, computers etc, belong in the private market where the right incentives to make improvements exist.
The whole point is that SpaceX’s contributions have been minimal… and have still been paid for by tax dollars anyways with all the contracts they’re getting. Their big thing is supposed to be reusable rockets… guess what, NASA already pioneered the concept of reusable spacecraft with their space shuttle.
I’m just gonna reply to everyone with this, since it drives my point home and comes from NASA themselves. You can read it or not if you want, but my point is that SpaceX reduced costs in a way NASA by itself was not capable of doing. The main reason as you might imagine is the proper incentives were not there in the same way that they exist for private industry. Look at Section 3 point B. Institutional causes and cures of very high space launch cost.
Reading directly from your source: one of NASA’s key drivers have been RELIABILITY, and a “non-industrial” culture. Of course both of these things drive cost up. “Industrial” cultures have eliminated creativity since Henry Ford introduced the assembly line at his plant–everyone has a single efficient responsibility and it makes everyone miserable as a result, leading to nobody giving a single damn at the end of the day.
In the same paragraph you linked:
“The low Shuttle flight rate not only
makes for inefficient use of personnel and facilities, it distorts the cost per flight calculations because of high fixed
costs.” (Rutledge, 93-4063)”
Meaning that if they had modified their program and product to launch more frequently like SpaceX does, then the costs would be much more favorable.
And also:
"Another key factor in SpaceX’s low costs is its young, highly motivated workforce of top
graduates willing to work significant unpaid overtime. "
This is NOT a good thing–people shouldn’t have to slave away for their career. It’s also not sustainable, and it means that the work is being done by inexperienced individuals which leads to disasters like:
El problema principal de estúpidos como tú es asumir que puedes inferir absolutamente nada de la persona detrás de un username en una plataforma total y absolutamente anónima. Cara de cabron huelebicho.
Regardless of who would do better, the entirety of SpaceX and Starlink were paid for using American taxpayer’s money and government contracts. We already paid for it, we should own it.
Normally, I would have advocated for the nationalization of Starlink and SpaceX as a matter of national and global security, but it’s not like the current American regime would do any better. I’m not going to be counting on them to investigate, let alone prosecute the affairs of this Russian junkie-stooge either.
Brain dead take honestly. Nationalization doesn’t work out 11 times out of 10. Look at NASA, SpaceX ran circles around them with a tini tiny fraction of the funding.
Nationalization does not mean it belongs to “us” it belongs to the government, an entity with motivations, incentives and desires different from “us” the people.
I actually am skeptical of nationalization. I think the free market is more efficient in most situations.
But if you think SpaceX is running circles around NASA, well that’s so ridiculous that I’m starting to doubt myself.
They did though, they massively cut costs of launching a rocket, which is again the real barrier for space exploration, especially commercially viable space exploration. It’s not clear that NASA could have done that seeing how their costs remained roughly the same for decades, but don’t take it from me, take it from NASA themselves:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20200001093/downloads/20200001093.pdf
What’s your counter argument for saying they didn’t run circles around NASA?
All the explosions.
That’s bound to happen every now and then. At least it hasn’t happened with people inside.
If Tesla is any indication, it’s only a matter of time.
Well the engineers at SpaceX are generally more responsible and more concerned with security than Tesla, if only because the hardware is so expensive. But yes, it could happen any of these days.
Yeah boy get them boots deep I like the sloppy way you kiss that leather.
I mean, are you saying I should kiss the government’s boot? Do you think that any government, ever, is truly of the people for the people? Or is the government in the very moment that it defines itself as such becomes a separate entity with different motivations and incentives from the people? But yeah sure, let’s give it all to the government and then let’s also have elections surely the idiotic masses won’t vote in an idiot who will use all that power for no good. That’s the way to fix things.
Fucking braindead moron.
Not tough to see how you ended up permabanned on reddit.
It wasn’t by calling out people spouting takes they haven’t thought through for more than 5 minutes because they fit the vibes they like.
How’d you know that, recognized the username?
I looked at his acct and it was the subject of one of his last posts.
Could you elaborate on how SpaceX “ran circles around NASA”, seeing as how NASA basically pioneered every single piece of modern space technology, and all SpaceX is doing is fumbling to rearrange it like Legos that explode on the launch pad? Lol
Le Epic spaceship explosions.
SpaceX: 5
NASA: 1
Dumbass liberals BTFO!!
Hate to say it, but it was actually the Nazis who pioneered a lot of modern space technology. The US massively refined and improved it - often with the help of “rescued” Nazi scientists.
Then why does NASA, even before Trump, keep giving contracts to SpaceX? Space X did the one thing no government agency ever has an incentive to do: they lowered costs drastically. That’s the thing SpaceX did and that’s the only thing they need to do to run circles around NASA because that’s the true barrier to viable space exploration and mining etc.
The problem with a lot of people like you is that you cannot separate your disdain for a figurehead from the achievements of their organizations and you think attacking that is the same as attacking the figurehead. In a word you are simple. And you grossly oversimplify something like being able to catch the rocket again on landing, and it speaks volumes of your inability or unwillingness to be unbiased for political reasons as if that were going to change the objective truth. I don’t like Musk any more than you do, but what SpaceX has done NASA failed to do for decades. Nationalization is never a solution for anything and if it is please point to a single instance in which nationalizing anything led to cost reductions and increases in efficiency and better service. Because it’s never the case. Now I could argue in favor of public healthcare but that’s a very different from space exploration and tech.
Think objectively about things, don’t just say things to echo the hivemind.
They keep giving contracts to SpaceX because that’s the way the budgets are mandated from congress. They have X amount of money to distribute. Everything goes to generally the lowest bidder, and because there are only a handful of options, they have to keep using one contractor to produce their parts because it’s even more expensive to keep switching.
So drop the attitude. Usually the worst bidder gets the job, and it ends up costing more money after everything is said and done.
Section 3 Point B.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20200001093/downloads/20200001093.pdf
I think you severely discount NASA’s achievements. I would wager the stagnation of NASA and the subsequent rise of SpaceX was largely due to a lack of funding for NASA and waning public interest and lack of leadership.
I doubt the public would have tolerated the idea blowing up rockets until it worked as a good use of tax payer dollars. So did NASA fail us, or did the public fail NASA?
Section 3 Point B.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20200001093/downloads/20200001093.pdf
Fuck off with the notion that everything that contradicts your opinion is the “hivemind.” It is supremely condescending and toxic to pretend you’re the only one capable of independent thought.
Did I ever say or imply that everything that contradicts my opinion is of the hive mind? Because I don’t think I did. But this particular trope of trying to flatten any of the achievements of Musk’s companies simply because they are associated with him and calling for their nationalization is a tiresome talking point of the online “left” that simply parrots whatever everyone else “on their side” is supposed to think because it has leftie vibes. It’s as brain dead a take as any you would find on a Magatard community.
And I do need to point out that nationalization is not inherently socialist or left wing at all.
Not only that,but NASA gave this knowledge away for free - to the universities that taught the people who now work for Muskler.
Yeah. These dumbasses forget that government funding is what originally set the stage and enabled any progress at all for private company-entrepreneurs who benefitted from all that publicly available knowledge, paid for by our tax dollars.
Innovation will slow to a trickle with all these government cuts because these companies literally can’t pay for anything not directly related to their bottom dollar, and none of them can see far enough past next quarter’s profits to invest in the future.
Human knowledge is always cumulative ya dunce. If we were to apply your logic we should instead give all of our science and research to Greece, China and the Middle East since they pioneered the innovations upon which civilization is built.
I’m not defending any government cuts or anything fyi. Im just saying the fact that nationalization doesn’t work, and it has never worked. Theres people who still think critically instead of relying on trying to score points for a team.
Human knowledge can be (and historically, often has been) destroyed as well as accumulated. It’s a myth originating with the Whigs that history always moved in the direction of progress. As recent political events in the US have shown, that’s not true.
Except, for example, in every developed-world health care delivery system, all of which massively outperform the private-sector US system both on cost and on outcomes. Likewise, fire departments, interstate highway systems, public water supplies, armies, etc, etc.
So before calling someone a dunce, you might do well to learn more about the many things you don’t know.
Well I never said anything about progress, I said it’s cumulative. We never destroy more than we have accumulated. None of the knowledge we have today would exist without the knowledge of our earliest of ancestors when Homo sapiens was still thousands of years away. That being said, looking at the sheer amount of time we’ve been accumulating knowledge even if we had a thousand years of absolute barbarity and massive ignorance, the statement that knowledge tends towards progress would still be true. The present is a blip in the scale of human history.
To address your other point. Yes I’ll admit that I was too universalistic in my argument in the heat of the moment so to speak. But the big caveat is that it does not necessarily lead to, and most always doesn’t lead to better service for end user. It’s a trade off in most cases. But I’ll never argue in favor of privatized healthcare or education for example. The loss in efficiency is simply not enough to justify the real human cost of the alternative. But cutting edge technology that is not essential, such as space travel, computers etc, belong in the private market where the right incentives to make improvements exist.
The whole point is that SpaceX’s contributions have been minimal… and have still been paid for by tax dollars anyways with all the contracts they’re getting. Their big thing is supposed to be reusable rockets… guess what, NASA already pioneered the concept of reusable spacecraft with their space shuttle.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20200001093/downloads/20200001093.pdf
I’m just gonna reply to everyone with this, since it drives my point home and comes from NASA themselves. You can read it or not if you want, but my point is that SpaceX reduced costs in a way NASA by itself was not capable of doing. The main reason as you might imagine is the proper incentives were not there in the same way that they exist for private industry. Look at Section 3 point B. Institutional causes and cures of very high space launch cost.
Reading directly from your source: one of NASA’s key drivers have been RELIABILITY, and a “non-industrial” culture. Of course both of these things drive cost up. “Industrial” cultures have eliminated creativity since Henry Ford introduced the assembly line at his plant–everyone has a single efficient responsibility and it makes everyone miserable as a result, leading to nobody giving a single damn at the end of the day.
In the same paragraph you linked: “The low Shuttle flight rate not only makes for inefficient use of personnel and facilities, it distorts the cost per flight calculations because of high fixed costs.” (Rutledge, 93-4063)” Meaning that if they had modified their program and product to launch more frequently like SpaceX does, then the costs would be much more favorable.
And also: "Another key factor in SpaceX’s low costs is its young, highly motivated workforce of top graduates willing to work significant unpaid overtime. " This is NOT a good thing–people shouldn’t have to slave away for their career. It’s also not sustainable, and it means that the work is being done by inexperienced individuals which leads to disasters like:
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/12/18/texas-space-x-lawsuit-tceq-pollution/, and
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/25/mexico-president-lawsuit-spacex-debris-rocket-explosions, and
https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-starship-super-heavy-launch-destroyed-launchpad-volcano-sized-explosion-2023-11
You’re fucking stupid and American. If only you could speak more than English, you could learn about the world and its history.
El problema principal de estúpidos como tú es asumir que puedes inferir absolutamente nada de la persona detrás de un username en una plataforma total y absolutamente anónima. Cara de cabron huelebicho.
Judging by the way they spelled “teeny,” I can’t help but wonder if they might also be familiar with the Cyrillic alphabet
Regardless of who would do better, the entirety of SpaceX and Starlink were paid for using American taxpayer’s money and government contracts. We already paid for it, we should own it.
Any sources for this? I’d love to read up on it
Ohh, just wait till they privatize weather, mail, prison. hospitals…
It’s gonna be too expensive to live on this planet for YOU.
both prisons and most hospitals are private.
Two of those are literally already privatised in America, and one more took some significant steps in that direction earlier this year.
One? Last I checked, both weather and mail are both on their way to privatization.
As I look out the window at rain that was in the forecast yesterday, but not this morning.