• xxce2AAb@feddit.dk
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    2 days ago

    Normally, I would have advocated for the nationalization of Starlink and SpaceX as a matter of national and global security, but it’s not like the current American regime would do any better. I’m not going to be counting on them to investigate, let alone prosecute the affairs of this Russian junkie-stooge either.

    • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      Brain dead take honestly. Nationalization doesn’t work out 11 times out of 10. Look at NASA, SpaceX ran circles around them with a tini tiny fraction of the funding.

      Nationalization does not mean it belongs to “us” it belongs to the government, an entity with motivations, incentives and desires different from “us” the people.

      • moakley@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        I actually am skeptical of nationalization. I think the free market is more efficient in most situations.

        But if you think SpaceX is running circles around NASA, well that’s so ridiculous that I’m starting to doubt myself.

        • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works
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          2 days ago

          I mean, are you saying I should kiss the government’s boot? Do you think that any government, ever, is truly of the people for the people? Or is the government in the very moment that it defines itself as such becomes a separate entity with different motivations and incentives from the people? But yeah sure, let’s give it all to the government and then let’s also have elections surely the idiotic masses won’t vote in an idiot who will use all that power for no good. That’s the way to fix things.

          Fucking braindead moron.

      • FabledAepitaph@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Could you elaborate on how SpaceX “ran circles around NASA”, seeing as how NASA basically pioneered every single piece of modern space technology, and all SpaceX is doing is fumbling to rearrange it like Legos that explode on the launch pad? Lol

        • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          NASA basically pioneered every single piece of modern space technology

          Hate to say it, but it was actually the Nazis who pioneered a lot of modern space technology. The US massively refined and improved it - often with the help of “rescued” Nazi scientists.

        • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works
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          2 days ago

          Then why does NASA, even before Trump, keep giving contracts to SpaceX? Space X did the one thing no government agency ever has an incentive to do: they lowered costs drastically. That’s the thing SpaceX did and that’s the only thing they need to do to run circles around NASA because that’s the true barrier to viable space exploration and mining etc.

          The problem with a lot of people like you is that you cannot separate your disdain for a figurehead from the achievements of their organizations and you think attacking that is the same as attacking the figurehead. In a word you are simple. And you grossly oversimplify something like being able to catch the rocket again on landing, and it speaks volumes of your inability or unwillingness to be unbiased for political reasons as if that were going to change the objective truth. I don’t like Musk any more than you do, but what SpaceX has done NASA failed to do for decades. Nationalization is never a solution for anything and if it is please point to a single instance in which nationalizing anything led to cost reductions and increases in efficiency and better service. Because it’s never the case. Now I could argue in favor of public healthcare but that’s a very different from space exploration and tech.

          Think objectively about things, don’t just say things to echo the hivemind.

          • FabledAepitaph@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            They keep giving contracts to SpaceX because that’s the way the budgets are mandated from congress. They have X amount of money to distribute. Everything goes to generally the lowest bidder, and because there are only a handful of options, they have to keep using one contractor to produce their parts because it’s even more expensive to keep switching.

            So drop the attitude. Usually the worst bidder gets the job, and it ends up costing more money after everything is said and done.

          • GaMEChld@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            I think you severely discount NASA’s achievements. I would wager the stagnation of NASA and the subsequent rise of SpaceX was largely due to a lack of funding for NASA and waning public interest and lack of leadership.

            I doubt the public would have tolerated the idea blowing up rockets until it worked as a good use of tax payer dollars. So did NASA fail us, or did the public fail NASA?

          • grue@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            Think objectively about things, don’t just say things to echo the hivemind.

            Fuck off with the notion that everything that contradicts your opinion is the “hivemind.” It is supremely condescending and toxic to pretend you’re the only one capable of independent thought.

            • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works
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              2 days ago

              Did I ever say or imply that everything that contradicts my opinion is of the hive mind? Because I don’t think I did. But this particular trope of trying to flatten any of the achievements of Musk’s companies simply because they are associated with him and calling for their nationalization is a tiresome talking point of the online “left” that simply parrots whatever everyone else “on their side” is supposed to think because it has leftie vibes. It’s as brain dead a take as any you would find on a Magatard community.

              And I do need to point out that nationalization is not inherently socialist or left wing at all.

        • philpo@feddit.org
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          2 days ago

          Not only that,but NASA gave this knowledge away for free - to the universities that taught the people who now work for Muskler.

          • FabledAepitaph@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            Yeah. These dumbasses forget that government funding is what originally set the stage and enabled any progress at all for private company-entrepreneurs who benefitted from all that publicly available knowledge, paid for by our tax dollars.

            Innovation will slow to a trickle with all these government cuts because these companies literally can’t pay for anything not directly related to their bottom dollar, and none of them can see far enough past next quarter’s profits to invest in the future.

            • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works
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              2 days ago

              Human knowledge is always cumulative ya dunce. If we were to apply your logic we should instead give all of our science and research to Greece, China and the Middle East since they pioneered the innovations upon which civilization is built.

              I’m not defending any government cuts or anything fyi. Im just saying the fact that nationalization doesn’t work, and it has never worked. Theres people who still think critically instead of relying on trying to score points for a team.

              • phutatorius@lemmy.zip
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                2 days ago

                Human knowledge is always cumulative ya dunce.

                Human knowledge can be (and historically, often has been) destroyed as well as accumulated. It’s a myth originating with the Whigs that history always moved in the direction of progress. As recent political events in the US have shown, that’s not true.

                nationalization doesn’t work, and it has never worked

                Except, for example, in every developed-world health care delivery system, all of which massively outperform the private-sector US system both on cost and on outcomes. Likewise, fire departments, interstate highway systems, public water supplies, armies, etc, etc.

                So before calling someone a dunce, you might do well to learn more about the many things you don’t know.

                • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 days ago

                  Well I never said anything about progress, I said it’s cumulative. We never destroy more than we have accumulated. None of the knowledge we have today would exist without the knowledge of our earliest of ancestors when Homo sapiens was still thousands of years away. That being said, looking at the sheer amount of time we’ve been accumulating knowledge even if we had a thousand years of absolute barbarity and massive ignorance, the statement that knowledge tends towards progress would still be true. The present is a blip in the scale of human history.

                  To address your other point. Yes I’ll admit that I was too universalistic in my argument in the heat of the moment so to speak. But the big caveat is that it does not necessarily lead to, and most always doesn’t lead to better service for end user. It’s a trade off in most cases. But I’ll never argue in favor of privatized healthcare or education for example. The loss in efficiency is simply not enough to justify the real human cost of the alternative. But cutting edge technology that is not essential, such as space travel, computers etc, belong in the private market where the right incentives to make improvements exist.

              • FabledAepitaph@lemmy.world
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                2 days ago

                The whole point is that SpaceX’s contributions have been minimal… and have still been paid for by tax dollars anyways with all the contracts they’re getting. Their big thing is supposed to be reusable rockets… guess what, NASA already pioneered the concept of reusable spacecraft with their space shuttle.

      • deur@feddit.nl
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        2 days ago

        You’re fucking stupid and American. If only you could speak more than English, you could learn about the world and its history.

        • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works
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          2 days ago

          El problema principal de estúpidos como tú es asumir que puedes inferir absolutamente nada de la persona detrás de un username en una plataforma total y absolutamente anónima. Cara de cabron huelebicho.

        • BremboTheFourth@piefed.ca
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          2 days ago

          Judging by the way they spelled “teeny,” I can’t help but wonder if they might also be familiar with the Cyrillic alphabet

    • theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Regardless of who would do better, the entirety of SpaceX and Starlink were paid for using American taxpayer’s money and government contracts. We already paid for it, we should own it.

      • SeeMarkFly@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        Ohh, just wait till they privatize weather, mail, prison. hospitals…

        It’s gonna be too expensive to live on this planet for YOU.

        • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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          2 days ago

          Two of those are literally already privatised in America, and one more took some significant steps in that direction earlier this year.

          • pivot_root@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            one more took some significant steps in that direction earlier this year.

            One? Last I checked, both weather and mail are both on their way to privatization.