The dissent was widely known and broadcast — they chose their line. And it will cost us decades if not generations.
yep, I think the centrists think of it as a single lost election that they can just have a do over on next cycle. Many of the dem base voters they imagine will come back are third party for life now. People take supporting genocide pretty personally. Many on here like finitebanjo and givesomefucks want to pretend the DNC dems never supported genocide. But they did, and still do. Theres no take backsies or do overs on that.
The only thing to blame for her defeat is the American republican voters who are too fucking stupid and selfish to not be complete assholes. There is always things one could have done better, not having done perfect is just reality.
There’s not being perfect and there’s supporting a genocide. She deserves the blame
So just like Trump? Harris isn’t the one planning on profiting from real estate development in the gaza ffs. That’s who Republicans voted for.
Doesn’t really matter what happens after if the original goal is the mass murder and elimination of a culture. If I was Palestinian I would’ve sat out the election. Its easy to complain when no one you actually know was being bombed in an open air prison.
Americans are complaining about ICE arresting children and shooting citizens but thats been happening in Palestine for decades.
One of the two options will get chosen. Abstaining only increases the chance the worse of the options for you is more likely. Being a single issue voter and not voting if that single issue isn’t what you want is irresponsible to yourself. Whoever wins will affect your life in a myriad of ways beyond that single issue and throwing away your influence over that, as small as it may be, is simply foolish. If you aren’t also participating in the systems that choose the candidates, nevermind finding and supporting politicians who do reflect your values, you’re doing a disservice to yourself.
There is no worse option than a genocide. And last I checked there was no primary last election. This was about the presidential election.
You folks who try to shame Arabs/Muslims for sitting out the last election get on my nerves. Refusing the false choice of youre ppls extermination and likening it to single issue voting spits on their struggle. Its the equivalent of telling a black person in 1968 that not voting Nixon because hes a massive racist makes them foolish single issue voters.
The issue and the demographic of the voter are immaterial. If you refuse to vote based on one issue then you give up your influence over all the other issues as well. You don’t have to like it or think it’s just, or fair, or right. It’s about whether you will use the political power you do have to influence the things that will affect you or not.
Being Arab or Muslim or black or white or Christian or athiest or young or old, or anything else, doesn’t matter in regard to whether you use the power you have or not.
Your diseased “lesser evil” dogma is how we got to the point where supporting the modern-day holocaust is framed as “not having done perfect”.
Choosing the lesser of two evils is life. Welcome to it. You don’t always get to choose your options and mitigating the worst is a responsibility. Trump was easily the worst, and also supports the genocide. But Republicans couldn’t seem to figure that out. Apparently just like you.
Weird, I didn’t choose either evil but I’m still alive.
Yes, I meant you risked death…
You said “choosing the lesser of two evils is life”. And yet I lived without doing so. Almost like it’s not an inevitable aspect of life. Almost like you cling to that narrative as a cognitive tool, something to contextualize your actions as inevitable and unavoidable in order to avoid the guilt you’re rightfully due for endorsing genocidaires to run the most powerful military our species has ever known.
Anyway, leftists are apparently such a powerful segment of the electorate that you blame us for Democrats losing. You know what that’s called in politics? Leverage. We can make you lose, according to your own narrative. Guess you better start listening to our demands unless you want to keep losing. We’re in charge, after all. You just said so.
“What do you mean by life, then?” Is what you could have asked but instead you wrote two paragraphs arguing against the strawman you created for yourself to play with. I won’t get in the way, keep playing with yourself.
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Wow! You mean that thing that a shitload of people were screaming warnings about has finally been heard? And only 18 months too late to do anything about it! At this rate, they might figure out that trump is a pedophile before he dies. I sure do have a lot of hope that future elections are gonna go well and totally not be ratfucked out in the open with no pushback of any actual consequence. I’m glad that there will be a stern letter threatening to file a lawsuit (that will never happen) due to armed CBP and ICE at the polls terrorizing BIPOC. Inspiring stuff, papa Schumer!
Yup, all those folks withheld their votes, and now Gaza is saved!
100% this. It’s all so tiresome to listen to those types, too. They really do think they are so very self-righteous and better than the “neoliberal shills”, etc. 🙄
If Harris wanted to win the election, they needed to listen to us and capitulate. It’s not more complicated than that. We gave the roadmap, we were informed, and the post mortems show us to have been right the entire time.
Harris ran a losing campaign. That’s an objective fact. We have a path to winning the election. Internet wide, apologists for Democrats chose to ban us, silence us, and wag their finger. Butt they didn’t have right of it. Their calculations were wrong.
We were litterally begging Harris to just fucking lie to us about her position on Gaza. Just fucking signal that she’d do something, anything to push back on Israel. She couldn’t even muster the most mediocre of efforts.
Then they lost the election.
And here’s the issue, and I’ve outlined this ad nauseum, and I’ll continue to do so until everyone understands: you don’t control the electorate.
You don’t have a choice in what people think or how they behave. And there are no functional mechanisms to move populations of people to whatever you think they “should” believe or how you think they should act. Moving populations is a decadal, generational project.
There is one path to winning elections: understand the electorate, and then move candidates into adopting those positions. You can’t shame, badger, or otherwise abuse voters into voting how you want them to. It doesn’t work. It doesn’t if you don’t like it. Trying to do so is counterproductive.
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world You said you never actually got any response from leftists. Here’s one. Why didn’t you answer it?
^ Well, I’m not sure if this is an actual question in good faith given this is coming from a banned account.
But, to answer it - I’m not sure if I said I never get response from leftists. Hell, I consider myself and many I affiliate with a leftist (despite all the arguments in bad faith that tend to kick off by calling everyone with even a slight disagreement a “shitlib” or a “neoliberal shill” and so on). If I said that, I didn’t mean it - what I meant is that I see less of them (online) since the election.
I have enough of the type of unapologetic unhelpful bad-faith types of “leftists” in my personal life even if all the online trolls/bots really did disappear immediately after the election.
I’ve had the conversation enough times and it’s nearly always done in bad faith and delusion. I’ve had it so many times that I could practically write out their responses anyway, so I don’t really see it going anywhere. In any case, I’m sure I’ll have it IRL soon enough as I have enough associates of the tankie archetype. It’s weird how much of the Murc’s Law media and reactionary centrist tropes they have adopted, that’s for sure…if I didn’t experience this kind of thing IRL, I’m not sure I’d even be convinced that all of these online characters were not just a form of online agent provocateur. I believe that at least some of the online people legitimately hold their views.
What state was going to turn if all green party voters voted Harris?
Because you can’t name one, I’ll proceed to the next point: it’s the job of the party to court votes. That’s it. They don’t have another job. And when they fail in doing that, they’ve failed in their job.
A party blaming voters is like a sailor blaming the sea. The sea just is what it is. There is nothing any sailor or captain, or person looking from land can do to change the manner of the sea.
The voters are the way they are. You can hate the way that they are, you can wish they were different than how they are, but that doesn’t not change them. We told you this in 2023. You ignored us and told us that “the voters just needed to suck it up and vote this way”. But the voters didn’t, because that’s not how voters work. And by resisting calls for the party to change, you are doing the work of setting us up for further failure.
If you are blaming voters, an amorphous blob over which neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has control of: you are a saboteur of the effort to stop fascism.
It is politically illiterate to blame voters. When the sailors in board tell the captain “don’t go that way, there are rocks”, and the captain says "well the rocks better move, whose fault is it that the rocks didn’t move?
Theuniparty requires unconditional support for Israel
But the Democrats said they had to support genocide for the voters.
The sensible liberal centrist position to take is “a bit of genocide”. So instead of sending 35 billion in military aid, you send 20. It’s called realpolitik, and it’s the adult thing to do.
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Democrats can only win the election if they support the Israeli ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank
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The only reason Democrats lost the election was because far-left pro-Hamas single-issue voters handed it to Donald Trump by failing to vote for Kamala Harris
Listen, Donald Trump is the worst. The absolute worst. Therefore, Democrats should be allowed to endorse a genocide to win an election. Anyone who disagrees is basically Russian.
The only reason Democrats lost the election was because far-left pro-Hamas single-issue voters handed it to Donald Trump by failing to vote for Kamala Harris
And you definitely should not mention the part where Holocaust Harris still would’ve lost even if she received every single third-party vote, even including Libertarians who usually lean right. Blue MAGA is as hostile towards that basic fact as Red MAGA is towards… most basic facts.
EDIT: See? Downvotes for basic, verifiable math lol
Holocaust Harris still would’ve lost even if she received every single third-party vote
Obviously it wasn’t just the third party voters who betrayed her, but all the non-voters as well.
She ran the perfect campaign, but was stabbed in the back!
Maybe instead of promising “the most lethal fighting force in the world”, she should’ve promised it “in the galaxy”. Thinking big never hurts when it comes to imperialism.
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The report: everything we were screaming into the void from 2023 till 2024.
The report is moot other than the fact they trying to bury it because anyone with two twigs to run together knows the answer, knew it before it happened, knew it while it was happening, and knows it now.
Trump was easily beatable in 2024 and Dems blew it at every turn.
You want to see the roadmap for beating Trump?
Sort c/politics by controversial and read the top five threads of comments.
It’s all there in black and white, in no uncertain terms. And the shitlibs who insisted we take the worst strategy turns possible (and advocating for them in those threads)…they mostly jumped ship (santanko and squid being notable examples).
It’s also worth nothing how many voices who go their analysis at the time basically correct at the time it would have mattered, how many of them are banned from politics as a whole. There was a clear moderation effort made to cultivate a specific type of conversation here.
Huh. Maybe next time we tell them “supporting mass murder is bad even if the other side does it too” they’ll listen.
They won’t. They would rather lose and be controlled opposition. But one can hope for change.
