such a funny time for this discourse again ☕
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There’s no place in a civilised democratic society for people to be walking around with guns. America, on the other hand…
In a civilised society, you don’t fear every random passerby will try to kill you, so it is irrelevant what they are carrying.
But, really, life is much safer without that many guns. I encourage America to try it. I imagine I could get to enjoy using an assault rifle, but it can’t be worth all the shootings.
Look how black panthers existence changed many laws in carry permits, and you understand why both sides needs to be pro-guns
Been around guns my whole life. Shot them, loaded them, cleaned them, but IV never owned one myself. Mostly for a lack of wanting. But now seems a good time to have my own for better or worse.
Girlfriend really don’t want me to have it tho
Same here.
To me it’s a useless item.
I saw a competition where competitors would stand on a blue square and quickly shoot all the blue targets that popped up, then move to a red square and shoot the red ones. It was timed and looked like a ton of fun. I thought, this would be the only reason I would buy one. But you know, I have a lot of hobbies. That looked real expensive. I would have to hang around gun ranges and gun people. There would be a dangerous weapon in the house. We don’t have kids but visitors do. My wife doesn’t want it. In the end I just didn’t want it.
I have a lot of friends who are Democrats and a lot of them own guns. I laugh every time Republicans say Dems want to take their guns. I’m like, no, they just want some simple safety rules and the strange thing is 80% of all gun owners used to to. I don’t know if that’s still true but the number came from the NRA a decade or two ago. Yeah, THE NRA. They even used to be in favor of an automatic weapons ban.
I don’t think more guns is the answer, but I can kind of see the logic for a lefty to want to defend himself…or his country.
It’s not as expensive of a hobby as drugs or cars.so there’s that, I guess. 🤷🏼♂️
I’ve had my FOID for about 17 years. Never felt the need either. Now we’re going to the range and shopping guns. Makes more sense to be armed than not in this current climate.
Why though? It’s not like people are getting kidnapped off the street oh wait
Gotta tap those new markets. Almost a million dead Americans from gun violence in the last twenty years and corporations laughing all the way to the bank.
The gun discourse always felt like another manufactured divide to further polarize the public and disarm the left in practice.
Are you talking about people in the USA or people elsewhere in the world? The USA is always “special” when it comes to matters like this.
It’s definitely not just an American thing.
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.” -Karl Marx
America does have a “unique” culture around guns, but that’s not all that prevalent on the left. What’s driving interest in guns is the sad fact that we might need to use them.
The thought process that “we might need to use them” is evidence that the left in America does think about guns differently than the rest of the world.
You should mention that that was Karl Marx before the US civil war. Not Karl Marx in an age where drone-based warfare is common.
Are you suggesting we build weaponized drones?
I’m saying that if Karl Marx had written things in 2025, what he would have said would undoubtedly have been different than what he wrote in 1850.
But the need for workers to defend themselves from the capitalist system/state has never been more pressing as the capitalists are once again choosing fascism. I doubt Marx would be advocating for disarmament in today’s world.
The need might not have changed, but the option to use weapons to do so might no longer exist. OTOH, in Marx’s time communications technology was primitive, there was no way to coordinate instantaneously with other people was limited to people who were within earshot. Maybe a 2025 Marx wouldn’t talk about giving up weapons, because he’d know taking up arms against a state was pointless in 2025, and instead he’d be all about mesh networks and encryption.
The potential to need to use guns is a statement of fact. The alternative of counting on law and order to correct the overreach of a fascist cop is no longer valid. When people start getting disappeared without due process, that changes the calculus entirely.
I’ve got no clue what drones have to do with this. That’s just one more threat of extrajudicial state violence we might very well have to face. I’d rather try to defend myself from a drone with buck shot than a slingshot.
The potential to need to use guns is a statement of fact
It’s your opinion that you might want to use guns. That doesn’t mean that guns are the only possible solution to the problem. As I said, American-brained people think Americanely, which distinguishes them from the rest of the world.
Ok Mr big bad, you live around a bunch of idiots and cops that have guns and want to kill you, let’s see how cavalier you are about not wanting to protect yourself especially given the current state of affairs in the US.
Big Ukraine giving up it’s nuclear arsenal just to end up getting invaded by Russia energy.
you live around a bunch of idiots and cops that have guns and want to kill you
Why would I live there? I’d leave.
Not everyone has the financial resources to up and move countries.
I think you will find that anyone who can’t rely on functioning courts thinks about guns this way. It’s not just Americans. There are dozens of countries where you would be braindead not to have guns for home protection. The thing those countries have in common is a rational lack of confidence in the rule of law. Russians see it that way. Afghans do too. Pretty much everywhere but Europe sees it that way unless they have a government so oppressive as to make private gun ownership nearly impossible.
I think you’ll find that it’s mostly Americans who jump to guns first. There are dozens of countries Americans look at and say: “Gee, those people should have guns”, but the locals disagree.
Russia? You can’t buy a hunting rifle unless you’ve owned a smoothbore gun for 5 years without an incident. Fully automatic guns? Forbidden. Pistols and revolvers? Heavily restricted. If you own one you have to keep it in a gun safe which is inspected by the Russian version of ATF. And you need to pass an exam and a psychological check to own one.
I don’t know where you got the idea that Russians have a similar fetish for guns as Americans.
As for Afghanistan, is that really a country you want to compare the US to? A country that has been at war more often than it has been at peace?
Almost nobody in the world sees it the same as the US. Not in Africa. Not in South America. Not in Europe. Definitely not in Asia. And not even in other countries in North America.
I think you’ll find that it’s mostly Americans who jump to guns first.
What does that even mean? First before what? It’s been quite a few years since our civil war. We’ve “jumped to” quite a lot of things before guns, and the left hasn’t really jumped to them yet. I’m not saying there isn’t a massive gun fetish here, because there is, but it exists almost entirely among right wingers. God, guns, and hate are their culture. The left hates the idea of using guns, but we also see the reality we live in, and a lot of us choose to be prepared.
You don’t see lefties going to gun shows unless doing some kind of investigation of the right. We don’t hand our kids AR-15s for the family Christmas photo or celebrate shooting an overly rambunctious pup. We don’t have collections of dozens of guns in private arsenals. We generally do support sane gun control and responsible ownership. We don’t brag about our guns or make them part of our identity.
Russia? You can’t buy a hunting rifle unless…
Don’t you mean “can’t legally buy”? Are you seriously unaware of the rather infamous scope of the Russian black market in guns? Russia has a bit of an organized crime thing going, as in it’s everywhere. Their black market represents a quarter of their GDP, and everyone pays bribes to someone.
As for Afghanistan, is that really a country you want to compare the US to?
What the fuck? Of course not! I don’t want to compare it to Nazi Germany either, but the similarities are kind of hard to miss. Where did you get the idea that I was talking about my aspirations for America?
A country that has been at war more often than it has been at peace?
LOL. As of 5 years ago, the US had been at war for 222/244 years. I don’t know if even Afghanistan can match that.
Almost nobody in the world sees it the same as the US…
Again, the US is a big country and can’t all be lumped into one big group. Different groups relate to guns very differently here. Gun ownership on the left is largely driven by gun ownership on the right, and now our newly fascist government. We don’t relate to guns the same as the right, but many of us do own them and know how to use them.
The American left is not that dissimilar to the left in a lot of other countries as it relates to guns, except that our situation is quite different.
Definitely just the USA. I mentioned earlier that I really respect NZ deciding to disarm after their last public shooting. That’s something that could really happen when corruption is that low and people are educated and healthy.
Leftists have always been pro gun. There’s just not that many leftists. It’s the Democrats and neoliberals who think only Trump and his government should have guns.
EU gun restrictions don’t come from the left?
Not sorry to burst your bubble: Democrats are left by basic definitions of left & political classifications, historical record, and usual knowledge of political scientists & analysts.
Do you have many conservative views for the proliferation of guns in the EU?
I don’t know: I’m asking them.
Conservatives in the US love guns.
I’m not American, but I consider myself left wing, and I am pro gun but I am also pro gun control. I don’t think outright banning them is a solution but I also don’t think letting them out in the world unchecked is a good idea either.
Fr, I’m from Texas and can’t count the responsible gun owners with one hand.
Mostly left of center liberal here. I’ve got no problem with guns and folks using them safely and responsibly. Problem is, there is a whole shitton of assholes that can’t even follow the first rule of firearm safety.
I like it this way, guns are a privilege NOT a right. Just like driving.
Aren’t they literally a right though?
“The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” It is a right. If we were to get rid of gun rights, we’d need to repeal the second amendment.
oh i know - it’s comically stupid to say with such emphasis they’re NOT a right, when they literally are.
Personally, I welcome better regulation of gun ownership, and think the entire reason for the 2nd amendment is from a time long gone. Even the most “well regulated militia” would be easily squashed, short of them having similar firepower to the US Military.
100%. There is no question that the original constitutional amendment is barely applicable to modern technology. Also, plenty of countries have guns and don’t shoot each other up all the time.
I really dont know, but i dont think other countries have such an ease of access to guns as we do here. Still, it’s clearly a mental health/culture issue
Switzerland, for example.
Im no expert but they have significantly less ease of access to guns. According to chatgpt:
Switzerland
Cultural context: Firearms ownership is tied to militia service—most adult men serve in the military and may keep their service weapon at home.
Ownership:
Citizens can own firearms, but permits are required for purchase (background checks, no serious criminal record, no history of addiction or dangerous mental illness).
Automatic weapons and certain high-capacity firearms are restricted.
Carrying guns:
Very tightly restricted—permits for concealed or open carry are rarely issued.
Guns are generally kept at home, not carried in public.
Ammunition:
Service members may keep their rifles but must return military ammunition; private ammo requires separate purchase/permit.
Registration & oversight:
All gun sales are registered with authorities.
Federal and cantonal (state-level) governments oversee firearms closely.
Gun deaths:
Switzerland has a relatively high rate of gun ownership (approx. 27–30 guns per 100 people).
But gun homicide and mass shooting rates are very low, partly due to strict regulation, cultural responsibility, and fewer social/economic drivers of violence.
Because fascism is here and guns are a requirement now if we don’t want to live in an authoritarian future.
I’ve been anti-gun my whole life. That’s because I had some faith that our society was intelligent enough that we could create a less violent nation that respects democracy and votes our way into a better future.
Reality Check: That isn’t our society.
Guns may not save us from authoritarianism, but not having them guarantees it. Wish it wasn’t so, but it is.
If this train keeps derailing, they will end up coming for you. That’s how fascism works. You want a way to defend yourself or not?
I thought leftists are always pro-gun, while its the liberals (which includes those progressives in the US Democratic party) are always against guns.
I always felt like a minority in politics. I grew more and more supportative of egalitarian policies as a I grew older, coming to that conclusion from both logics (I wouldn’t want to be treated that way), and also from experience as a racial minority.
But I’ve literally always been pro-gun since the moment the gun topic came up in school.
Which just leaves me in a very confused position when I learned that out of the two big parties (those that can actually win an election), the party I agree more with opposes guns. I just had a mini-identity crisis.
So while I do vote for democrats, I do so begrudgingly, because there is just no viable left-of-center pro-gun party. Every time they say “gun control” on an election year, I just facepalm, like c’mon just drop the issue from the party platform and win a lot more elections, the time to debate guns was 1789, now its kinda too late, cats out of the bag.
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”
-Karl Marx
I disagree with Stalinism and Maoism, but Marx had great ideas, but sadly people just did a horrible interpretation/implementations of it and used communist/socialist aesthetics to justify their authoritatianism and never actually doing any real egalitarian stuff.
A true Liberal wants 100% deregulation. It is odd the reject MAGATs thinks the Liberals, Communists and Socialists are the same. Far fucking from it.
A true Liberal wants 100% deregulation.
I think you are talking about a Libertarian
That’s not true either. What you think of as libertarianism is just anarcho-capitalism rebranded. Libertarianism is a left wing ideology. The name was stolen by right wing think tanks. True libertarians absolutely support any kind of regulation that serves to liberate individuals from subservience to capital.
Librarians 4 Gunz 2025
Being pro gun, doesn’t have to mean you’re against sensible gun laws though
So far, what democrats propose aren’t really sensible.
They are giving authority to police to dictate who can or cannot obtain a gun permit.
Like wtf, fuck the police, I don’t trust them with shit.
Give that power to like, idk, some sort of jury and maybe we’ll talk about gun control. But I ain’t trusting cops with the discretion to hand out gun permits. They’ll give it to a white young-adult that’s racist as fuck and threatened people, but will simultaneously refuse to give a permit to a black store owner seeking for a gun to defend against a potential white mob trying to attack his store.
Before 2022, most Democratic jurisdictions operate under “May-Issue” laws, meaning, cops had broad discretion on whether to issue a permit or not, but then the supreme court, ironically its the 6 fascist-alligned judges, struck it down and the whole US is now under “Shall-Issue” laws, which means, cops cannot deny a permit if the background check comes clean, so no more denying guns to non-whites and using “he looks suspicious” as a reason.
Every Democrat proposed gun control law always carves out exceptions for cops, even their personal firearms. That’s not gun control it’s class warfare.
100%. We already know plenty of cops are definitely the, “just following orders” types of cowards for the defenseless, and the call paramedics for anything so i dont have to deal with it for everything else type.
I’ll be damned if im okay with them deciding.
They are giving authority to police to >dictate who can or cannot obtain a gun permit.
Like wtf, fuck the police, I don’t trust them with >shit.
Give that power to like, idk, some sort of jury and maybe we’ll talk about gun control. But I ain’t trusting cops with the discretion to hand out gun permits. They’ll give it to a white young-adult that’s racist as fuck and threatened people, but will simultaneously refuse to give a permit to a black store owner seeking for a gun to defend against a potential white mob trying to attack his store.
Fun fact: NC “recently” (idfk 1-2yr ago) got rid of their Pistol Purchase Permit required to buy a handgun, because it was found that the Sheriffs (who had the authority to approve the permits) were using the law to discriminate. Iirc around the time I read 60% of denials were to black people. That state and others still gatekeep the CCW permit behind the exact same system. Just evidence to your point.
That said, a jury can be, and often is as we’ve seen, racist too. A NICs check oughta be enough, if you can’t trust someone to carry one you can’t trust them to have it at all imo. Hell even a NICs check, I personally think nonviolent felons should have a path back to firearms ownership, and don’t care if someone is an unlawful user of marijuana.
Manditory safety training, depending on price and time, imo is a barrier to entry for the poor and trivial for the rich. It’d have to be well thought out.
Permits? Bad. Registry? Literal fascism, it’s time to “go.” Idfc if it’s jury, idfc if it’s private companies not the feds, no.
Because we’ve all seen how companies that promised to keep your data safe totally keep that promise! No registry, idfc of it’s a “non partisan citizen organization” or data is not safe with anyone!
Background checks? Sure, but burn the data after(not going to happen, I know). But it’s better than letting literally anyone buy one. But if you think something like a registry or permits, something they need to keep track of periodically, won’t be weaponized against a group of minorities disproportionately then I got some beach front property in Tennessee to sell you.
The issue probably comes with determining which major organizations are knowledgable about guns…and then which of those organizations you’d trust.
If there are regulations, unfortunately someone has to administer them. Juries make decisions regarding cases, but cases only arise through police action; and court systems are already overloaded without handling firearm permits for individuals.
I’m pro gun, but I would tie the ownership of guns to a permit, that includes first aid and firearm safety training at least for the smaller arms, and possibly more for larger arms, on top of some background checks (no history of violent crimes or domestic abuse, etc.).
Who gives out the permits?
Make them shall issue permits, as in they can’t be denied as long as you’ve gone through the proper training
My issue with that is putting permit requirements on constitutional rights is a bad idea. We are sliding closer and closer to needing permits for free speech world wide, and I can see this administration giving out 4th and 5th amendment permits if you submit to pre-screening by ICE and the police.
Gun safety and training should be free and part of our mandatory education system to ensure what you want, rather than gate kept by certifications and permits. The administrative bureaucracy will find a way to be discriminatory with any steps in a shall issue chain.
Anti-gun sentiment doesn’t belong in a country where there are more firearms than people.
It’s always been idiocy. Stupid democrats saying stupid things because they know their idiot followers will lap it up. It’s been bullshit the entire time.
Ironically, leftists are more in line with the constitution with our reasoning around gun ownership. In my book, anyone who isn’t happy with the lax state of gun laws is equally an ally and we shouldn’t draw lines in the sand for no reason. You can both own a gun and want it to be harder for people who shouldn’t get them to get them, it’s almost as silly as the “you criticize society and yet you participate in society” argument.
I don’t know. I don’t think we really are good at deciding who should and shouldn’t have a right. there seems to be something fundamentally broken in that
Circumstances change, that’s the main fundamental issue. At the same time, we don’t even check for problems during a lot of gun sales. I would say domestic abuse charges, history of suicidal behavior or terroristic threats, etc. There are at least lines we can draw without it being a free for all or a massive lockdown. Admittedly, it’s mostly so we can feel we’re at least trying something in the face of our children being killed that may actually make an impact in some of the examples.
okay that’s valid and noble. I would like to live to see society change like that
but why do you think they want us disarmed before the change happens?
Well, with conservatives, it’s always about targeting those they don’t like. I wouldn’t be surprised to see anti gun legislation coming from the right that holds those already owning guns immune, but new buyers since November 2024 ineligible. I think we more or less agree?
yeah, probably. I’d bet on them somehow rolling it into concerns about immigrants and how “only real citizens get 2a rights”.
People might as well be talking about the right to bear Pokemon cards for all the difference guns seem to make.
Americans had one of the largest protests in history and police drove down suburban streets firing paintballs at people standing in their doorways.
People stop and upload content to Tiktok when citizens are abducted by masked men while a child cries for her mom.
We zombie walked into fascism and have camps being built and military being deployed to cities and do nothing after elections are rigged or a demagogue incites a coup.
Crazy how you can just drop weapons into the mix like fucking Zardoz and observe the same trends play out just with a lot more random violence. It’s like putting Tapatio on everything. “Ah yes, multiculturalism is a fine topic. But what if everyone had guns?”
Left wing people who imagine that they’ll fight the government with their guns are just as delusional as the right wing people who fantasize about the same thing.
A revolution, coup, or insurrection will require some portion of the Armed forces to defect. That’s where the equipment will come from. And there is a lot more between an average American and a soldier than a rifle and tac vest.
Social change won’t come from the land of make believe.
:: checks username ::
:: laughs ::
Quickest way for trump to take away everyone’s guns is for people he doesn’t like to arm up. Libs, minorities, etc. incidentally - trump is the only president who has suggested guns be taken away. Not even the snowflake republicans’ deepest fears and hatred of the Democratic presidents was ever validated by one of them saying guns should be taken away like trump.
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida … to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.
“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.
Kind of unrelated, but this was the point where the wool fell off my eyes and I realized his base will tolerate anything from him. Before, a statement like this from any national level politician would be an overnight end to their career, regardless of party, the supposed “Constitutionalists” would go unhinged.
But yeah you’re exactly right, the moment there is a whiff of leftist elements publicly arming and gaining momentum, we will see favorability for* sweeping gun control. The gun control we have today is largely a response to the right getting terrified of the successes the vocally armed Black Panthers. So get armed, quietly. They have no intentions of this being a 4 or even 8 year administration, the evidence is spilling out of everywhere you look.
They took away black people’s gun in the past. Specifically their guns. It wouldn’t be the first time.
Exactly why I mentioned it.
Can you explain? I’m not familiar with such an event.
Democrats and NRA worked together to end several gun rights in California because black men started open carrying.
Nobody is taking the guns from Americans, because nobody has the balls or the numbers of enforcers to do it.
For reference, the number of Americans who came out to the No Kings Day protests was larger than the sum total of all enlisted US Military and police officers. Next look at the number of Americans who own guns, it’s much larger than all of the above.
They just gradually redefine American and the gun problem disappears, ez
“They’re not taking my guns away, just those America hating
immigrantsgangscommunistsdemocratsdomestic terrorists”Nobody is just straight up kidnapping Americans off the street and deporting them to a concentration camp without due process. We would simply shoot them.
What is this strawman doing here?
Your logic is so bad that I’m not arguing with you. I’m making fun of you.
Turns out they hate women more than they love guns.
No actually I think more women should carry them and learn the laws regarding defense in their locale. Know plenty myself that already do.
And women seem to agree with me, which is why they’ve been one of the fastest growing groups of new gun owners in the past few years.
I think this episode plot of Bojack is one of the most bitingly effective takedowns of US culture I have seen, these words live rentfree in my head as a future epitaph to put on the gravestone of the US.
Turns out they hated women more than they loved guns.
Proceeds to ban all guns Turns out America hates women more than it loves guns.
Diane ❤️
