US - > NZ here, wait times significantly shorter for me here
U.S. healthcare has shorter waits
Is that even really true to begin with?
Compared to European countries, no. Compared to Canada, yes.
What stands out to me on that chart is that the US is more than twice as bad as any other country when it comes to wait time for primary care appointments.
right? like what is that… i consider a wait of more than a couple of days to be too long and just go to a random walk-in clinic… in a month most problems are gone already on their own or have gotten way out of control
Elective surgery means surgery that can improve quality of life, but is not otherwise life saving right?
Canada also has the lowest number of doctors per 10k, and the lowest wait for primary care.
The US has more doctors, but the highest time to primary care.
I don’t know many elective surgeries that can be scheduled without a primary care referring the patient to the surgeon for consult. Not to mention, beside plastic surgery, it’s usually a case where the patient has no idea they could benefit from the elective surgery.
That graph is highly misleading.
Canada also has the lowest number of doctors per 10k, and the lowest wait for primary care.
That’s assuming you even have primary care. There’s a desperate shortage of family doctors in Ontario.
What is misleading about it, it’s just numbers? It basically says… My knee hurts, let me go get it checked out: wait time column A. Physician says I need a knee replacement, wait time column B.
The chart isn’t claiming anything. It doesn’t say what is better or worse, just the wait times.
Meh, it is from Australia, so unless they have reason to make Canada look bad, it’s just numbers
My thought exactly. Specialists are booking months out.
Yep. God help you if you need a specialist because he’s likely to respond faster.
I called my primary for my annual checkup, they can’t get me in for 2 months. It’s getting bad out there
I’m not from the US but once I was in Orlando and took a friend to the hospital cause she wasn’t feeling well, she had insurance. We waited 4 hrs to even see a doctor, I have never waited that long even in public hospitals in my country
I waited from 6pm to 8am when my doctor’s office opened, and then talked to them to determine if I needed to be there (yes, I should have been seen/treated, but now they could see me in the office).
Only one patient was taking from the waiting room in that time.
The US health care system is baaaad.
And almost any specialist is months for a first visit, even for issues that that are life threatening.
That’s insane, though I had something similar. I studied there for a year and at one point I dropped a bed on my toe (dont ask), hurt a lot, got all purple and I was pretty sure it broke. I found out in the US I cant just go directly to an orthopedist, even though its obvious I needed one, so I scheduled a general doctor. Long story a bit shorter: by the time I got an xray done, my toe had already calcified lol
i waited that long in public subsidized healthcare, i think they forgot me one time, when they put me in a room, i dint see anyone for like 4 hours because they forgot.
Can’t even sue them? Isn’t that the national past time in USA?
That’s because ERs are the only way poor people see doctors in the US. Since we can’t go see a GP without insurance and a copay, we wait for the stomach pain that could have been treated to turn into sepsis from a gaping ulcer and then crowd into the ER.
You guys should have rioted decades ago, I feel sorry for you, animals live better than (non rich) americans
americans have pussified/pacified by anti-healthcare propaganda for decades.
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I’d say nothing is more important than your health and you already lost that. You have people dying and suffering while waiting on healthcare.
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It’s a very general broad topic. Probably depends a lot on what you need. And more importantly, how rich your are.
I highly doubt Bill Gates have to wait 3 months for a specialist appointment.
It is a common talking point people use when justifying their anti-universal healthcare stance.
It is often paired with refusing to acknowledge the current state of US healthcare and thinking they are paying more for quality and access.
Not remotely, no. I’ve been on a wait-list for a few weeks for appointments that are a minimum scheduled 3 months in advance.
From my experience it depends on which health care provider you have. I have Kaiser and some things are pretty quick, some things aren’t. I used to be on Covered California aka the ACA and things were a lot slower. Seems like, generally, the more money you pay in premiums the faster service you can get.
Kaiser
Maybe it could also be related to the difference between an HMO and normal insurance?
Yeah, could be
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kaiser is so-so, but not great, they are just all doctors in one building type of deal. i had a pretty bad experience with a Kaiser ENT, deliberately ignored my concerns because he got MAD , apparently i was supposed to do only phone appointments and he felt like i waste my time according to him, and he vented his anger on the poor nurse that was in the area/ or the one that put me in the room. then he started laughing me out of the room because of that(i was having pretty frequent nosebleeds). when i switched ENT they found the cause of it(and i did have deviated septum as well, but that was apparently the source of his anger, because doctors do not like to hear patients mention procedures/surgery).
also KAIser tends to be expensive as well, thats why some employers arnt willing to pay for it.
Yeah I have heard many many first hand anecdotes of people needing to schedule appointments months in advance
True. Even my primary care doctor needs 3 months advance scheduling to find me a slot.
Yeah. I had crippling inflammation and it took months to get into a rheumatologist.
I accidentally sliced my finger and non stop bleeding in the ER for 5 hours straight.
This was from 2am to 7am. Not exactly peak times.
American healthcare is broken.
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It makes my head explode when people say wait times are longer in countries with public systems because all the hypochondriacs will be abusing it.
It helps that in at least some countries (mine) you need to go to your PCP to even get a referral to a specialist unless you want to go to a private clinic and pay for the specialist. Then also all visits except PCP, are subject to a small fee. I suspect PCPs will stop sending you to specialists if you start raving about a new disease 5 times a month.
My hypochondriac ex certainly went to the ER about 50-60 times in the 2 years we were together though. Mostly maternity ER (she claimed she started getting braxton-hicks at about 10-12 weeks and the hospital she wanted to give birth at was 100 km from home so it meant 2x100 km drives about 2-3 times a week during starting week 20 or so). I reckon in the US, insurance would’ve told her to fuck off quite soon and I would’ve been millions in debt for her bullshit.
I’m glad you’re here to tell the tale. Thanks for sharing.
This is why you just cauterize it with a lit cigar. Just like my dad showed me.
No no. It cant be. Everyone in America keeps telling me the wait times in Canada are so high because of socialized medicine and you only have to wait 7 seconds to see a doctor in the glorious US of A.
Am Canadian. Got stung by a wasp on the foot last Saturday. Got worried yesterday when i noticed the red area around the sting grew. Contacted my gp’s office at the CLSC, got an appointment to see her this morning, got a scrip for antibiotics since she thinks it’s likely an infection, picked it up this pm and starting it tonight. 0$ for the consult, antibiotics are ~60$ (that’s the only place my private insurance kicks in, my out of pocket is 12$).
And this is a very standard experience in Quebec - with 1 caveat: my family’s fortunate enough to have an assigned GP, there’s a shortage and a pretty long (2y I think) waiting list; on the flip side there are a ton of walking/24/48h appointment clinics (also 0$) for those without.
When i say 0$, i want to be clear: it’s not free, it’s part of what’s covered by the RAMQ, which is the provincial health insurance company, but our yearly premium for that insurance is at most 800$.
That’s what happens when the health insurance is designed to hedge and amortize social costs rather than generate profits…
I am also Canadian and having used both healthcare system, I want to tell you that your Canadian conservative friends and conservative political talking points are all lying to you. It’s far faster in Canada than in America.
My point of view was from a suburb in Toronto and Vancouver vs NYC and Seattle.
Oh I know. Ive used both systems too and thank god Im Canadian and live here. The insurance scheme was a nightmare and the wait times were just as long.
Im Canadian and despite the American conservative talking points, I’ve never had to wait anywhere near that long and definitely not for a critical injury. There are busy hospitals but there are also more of them so you have options many times.
We have however seen an erosion of our socialized healthcare by conservatives in power in that things keep being removed from coverage, and you have to go out of pocket on things that should be covered.
I also like to mention that it was in a very high end city in the Seattle area.
At 7am, I was considering leaving and waiting at home until a small clinic opens, but they finally saw me.
Who told you about shorter wait times? Oftentimes you have to wait in months.
My other favorite refrain was the “You can keep your doctor!” crap that was a big selling point for that crowd.
In this system I have had 4 doctors move practices while under their care because they’re playing the capitalist system. I was not able to benefit from continuity of care in any form.
But at least I had to pay for it, not get it for “free” from a natl healthcare system. Yay.
US -> Canada here
I hear this often in Canada, but honestly the wait times are similar. In the US it would often take me ~3 months to be able to see my endo. Also, at least you can get healthcare here.
Aussie here, I just booked to see an endo, wait time was about 10 days
I can see my primary within hours normally, she can’t do much except refer me to who I really need see and those appointments take weeks to make and months to get to.
We desperately need more doctors, and those doctors need to cost less.
Free college would make a big difference for that.
Sort of. The US medical system has multiple choke points, but an undergraduate degree is the least limiting. The bigger barriers are the limited number of med school spots and the even smaller number of residency spots. Med school is a whole discussion, I don’t even think you should need an undergraduate degree, but whatever. The final filter is residency spots, which are functionally set by the government. They pay hospitals to take residents, and will only pay for a certain number each year. We gotta increase that number if we want to stop throwing away educated doctors before they can even get to helping people.
I’d say you’re right honestly. Especially since the majority of courses are really pointless for doctors. Organic chemistry only serves to weed out those who can’t or won’t study. You’ll use very little of it as a practicing doctor (Biology majors who take things such as immunology, genetics, etc def get more value than other majors)
Med school acceptance is definitely an issue like you said also. Its only getting worse, with the average GPA/MCAT/extracurriculars being waaaay higher than even in the 90s.
Residency, thankfully, is something theyre trying to address by increasing the slots. Of course they also have fucked anyone who needs FinAid for premed/med school so…
I have a chronic pain issue and my primary referred me to a specialist that took sox months to see. They referred me to a different specialist with a six month wait-list. They then referred me to a more specific sub-specialist for another three month wait. I live in a reasonably well-off and well populated area, so I’m not out in flyover country or anything. I’ve heard the same from many people. Short wait-lists in America is a myth.
100%. Took me 3 months to get an ENT appointment. They’ve still done fuck all about the actual issue almost a year and a half later. The profit incentive is for return customers, not to actually fucking cure anything here.
My first six month wait was for an ENT. I’m actually past ten years, well over a dozen referrals, and three useless surgeries, but that’s another story.
Pro-tip, if they want you to see a neurologist, make sure it’s a headache specialist. I waited 6 months to see a neurologist recommended by an ENT, only to have her immediately refer me to a headache specialist because, duh, nasal sinuses are in the head. What really kind of pisses me off is that I asked the ENT if this specific Neurologist he recommended was good with my kind of issue, and he assured me they were. Total bullshit.
Seems like a simple enough case that there can be a fact of the matter. Either U.S. wait time are shorter than single payer systems on average or they’re not; no need to rely on anecdotal stuff.
Is there anyone that can point to some good data on the subject?
Honestly? I can’t do the searching for you this time, but it’s all the top results when you look for average wait times between countries. The data is easy to access. Pretty much all developed nations have similar numbers, with wide variation between specialties.
The short wait times are a myth.
I went ot the ER with a heart scare in May. Turned out to probably be a panic attack, but they wanted a follow-up with a PCP just in case. The earliest appointment I could get with anyone within 100 miles on my insurance plan was in mid-July, and that wasn’t even with a doctor, but a PA.
I went to the appointment, and they spent 5 minutes with me and ordered labs. I go to the lab on the 30th of this month, and have a follow-up with the PA in October.
We’re looking at what’s essentially a 5 month wait for a diagnosis for an ER visit, and the total bill is gonna be around 15-20 grand.
Fortunately, I have “great insurance” so it’s only gonna cost me about $1500 to be told that the tests are inconclusive because they were 3 months after the incident.
I feel like the result from this image today would be to cut off the wings and make the fuselage weaker to make it cheaper to produce, because clearly they aren’t needed.
You forgot to give yourself a bonus after “contributing value” to the company.
Sorta makes some sense. People wait until it’s critical and then get rushed in with a heart attack, or they go to walk-in clinics which are a growing trend - a major downside is you don’t have a regular doctor that knows you health trends and can keep up a plan for you. Walk-ins start you from scratch every time. Getting to see your PCP, if you have one? Months for an appointment. Tell them it’s important? Couple weeks. Really important? Tomorrow or go to the ER.
Not the flex you think this is.
What are you saying is a flex?
Visiting doctors a lot more than another country.
Yes it is. It means we’re able to go when we need to and can be on top of any potential health issues.
lmao I had a period of like maybe 5 years when I didn’t get a regular checkup when I was a kid because my parents kinda neglected it. I was insured under the family plan too.
Edit: Forgot to add: USA btw
I’ve never heard the term “fee for service” so I looked it up and I don’t think that’s exactly what we do in Germany? Physicians are allocated a certain budget per patient (it’s not quite as simple but to keep it short) and if they exceed that, it can be somewhat of an issue.
Or maybe I’m just misunderstanding the term. Any experts in German health care around?
When it’s free or super low cost, it’s paid by the government. This means the government has a vested interest in keeping you healthy so they don’t have to pay more. It’s a great set up.
Plus more preventative care. Get something checked out early rather than waiting months and now being treated inpatient.
Tbf, for profit insurance companies also have a vested interest in keeping you healthy. Healthy people require less care which means more profits.
It’s just that insurance companies also have a vested interest to make sure that they don’t pay out for expensive treatments either. You can be healthy and then get cancer which is expensive vs be a sloth whose only form of exercise is walking back and forth from the front door to their bed and has heart issues.
Or they could just arbitrarily deny you care
individual health is about more than individual health… air quality, stress (including financial, other employment), quit campaigns, etc are all things that are solved at the national or regional government level. they’re all linked with better health outcomes, and incentives and profit motive are aligned when health care is paid for by government
What’s going on in Sweden?
High wealth inequality IIRC.
Which would explain recent pivot to the right. Although that has global factors fueling it that might outweigh anything local.
Bingo
Isn’t that exactly the point that’s being made against a public health care system? At least that’s how I always understood it. “If everyone had access, I would have longer wait times” is exactly what I heard so often when I talked with Americans about the public health care system.
I think you found a feature, not a bug.
Yeah, with conservatives here in the US the “quiet parts” often include something about it being preferable for other people to suffer or die than for me to lose some convenience. They just keep getting louder and louder about it.
Shorter wait times? The US healthcare system is a massive fucking dumpster fire. There are cases of people dying in hospital waiting rooms.
Probably if you’re a millionaire you can get shorter wait times.
The rest of y’all are fucked tho. Wish it wasn’t so, but oh well.
You can get shorter wait times in any other health care system too by using a private doctor. At least I don’t know a country where private doctors are illegal.
Even private ones can have long wait times in my country sadly
Then you probably don’t pay enough
There are no shorter wait times in the US. Lol
There is no such thing as US healthcare
We have “plans” you can get through your employer which will bring down your cancer operation costs to just $15000 in deductibles, assuming you don’t get fired for taking the time off to get the operation.
Otherwise, if you fall on a iron fence you can go to the ER
and at least the bill won’t impact your credit history.Sorry I’m being told that now medical bills impact your credit history.
I work for a big healthcare provider and in spite this likely being true, I still hear all the time about trying to “reduce over utilization”. It’s disgusting.
Is “healthcare provider” an actual provider of healthcare (hospital, private practice, etc) or a middleman?
Hospitals clearly want to have as many procedures as they can. Insurers likewise want to pay for none. Hence “overutilization”.
Any way it is, companies gonna chase profit with no eye for people. Remember, they don’t exist for people. They do for money.
and probably qoutas for DENIALS, over approvals for certain situations. i know one drug, dupixent is often denied by insurance, because its super expensive.
I’ve been on a waitlist for my GI for more than a year ( I’m in the US)
