Everything they say is bullshit and in bad faith. They have no reasonable argument whatsoever.
The right-wing playbook in action. It’s really interesting (and evil) how their rhetoric evolved to take advantage of the weaknesses of modern liberalism. The reason we shouldn’t accept their speech into just any space is because, pardon my French: it isn’t on the fucking level. They’re not trying to win a rational debate. They’re just trying to win, through whatever means necessary including exaggerating, lying, and bullshitting.
I am probably preaching to the choir here but if any of y’all haven’t gone through it, the whole right-wing playbook series on Youtube is pretty much mandatory viewing at this point and definitely made me abandon my ‘we should debate them in the marketplace of ideas’ stance.
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We’ve (collectively) voted Nazis into being in charge…
If you think they’re going to let us vote them out again, I don’t know what to tell you. They for sure won’t. There’s a decent chance Trump cheated his way into office this time as it is.
The second amendment was our final check and/or balance. It seems insane to oppose it in the face of fascism.
Why would you want to be disarmed when Nazis are running the country, AND HOW IS THAT BETTER OR DIFFERENT THAN THE 2016 TOLERANCE YOU’RE REFERRING TO???
No, I don’t want violence or murder or anything else. At some point though we may want Nazis even less.
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Maga doesn’t believe in freedom of speech for all, only freedom of speech for them.
I don’t wanna hear shit about “free speech” from right wingers ever again, because they’re slimy fucking hypocrites.
Oh but you will. They have a limited playbook and an even smaller intelligence capacity so you know this will be on the menu for quite some time. Just remember they all lie and can’t be trusted
Isnt if obvious? Today’s Conservatives are all about freedom of speech, as long as the speech directly reflects their values. Their speech is more free than others’…
“All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others”
- George Orwell, Animal Farm
The MAGA right are shameless and only want power and privilege for themselves and no one else.
To give him his due, he was willing to engage people. He was also willing to (or at least appeared willing to) actually change his position every once in a while, instead of just going along with whatever the latest narrative shift was, which is a rarity in talking head land.
That said, the vast majority of his arguments that I have heard were in bad faith, and he seemed to employ any means at his disposal to “win” instead of actually paying counter arguments due consideration.
Most of the positions he held were just terrible, as well, so that kind of waters down any willingness to “change his mind” because it does seem like he preferred to change from one shitty position to another shitty position, most of the time.
Anyway, I think it’s bullshit to shoot someone because you disagree with them.
Do you have an example of a time a counterpoint was offered that changed his mind?
A bunch of people in the Trump admin changed their mind on even the existence of the Epstein files.
I don’t care who killed him.
They don’t give a shit when we get shot in the street.
“i nEvER hAtEd aNyOnE, cHalriE oNLy StOod fOR rEliGiOuS fReEdOm”
“All Charlie wanted to do was debate people, but they couldn’t allow that”
They are the parents of cancel culture after all and huge hypocrites so it’s not surprising.
People need to stop getting hung up on the right being hypocritical. Their electorate doesn’t care and neither do they. Every argument is in bad faith and it works so why would they stop?
Their electorate doesn’t care but there’s that small percentage of actual independent voters who might and regardless you need to keep pointing it out because the public in general has the memory and critical thinking skills of a RFK Jr.
Sure but it’s just preaching to the choir. People’s short attention span, lack of critical thinking, and siloed media consumption means they are unlikely to see the call out.
They will see the 10 second sound bites of someone “owning the libs” or whatever and then keep scrolling.
Here on lemmy? Yeah, definitely. In real life where I used to drink with a bunch of old retired coots, this was a weekly thing. I got a handful of them to change a bit over many, many beers.
When the right uses terms like “liberty”, or “freedom” or “free speech”, everyone should realize that they mean those terms in very different ways than normal Americans do.
What is normal in this context? More than half the electorate supports the right. That’s plenty enough to be “normal” from the outside looking in.
Does the Pareto principal work for morals?
Like 80% you go with the flow, 20% “call me Neville because even if I’m the last normal person on earth I’ll never stop looking for the cure.”
I haven’t talked to my parents about this because they’re fox-news christians (lowercase ‘c’). But for real… how could any Christian listen to him talk and not immediately think “Wow this a grade-A piece of shit and the good book warned me about people like him.”?
People defending the debate with nazis must think life is an episode of a Sitcom, where someone says a speech and everyone else shuts the fuck up and agrees the point.
Nazis claim for the freedom of speech they deny to others. Nazis don’t win the debate, they poison it.
Fascism is not meant to be argued, it needs to be destroyed.
While agreeing to you, I also came to the conclusion that fascism is not meant to be destroyed, but to fought ethernally, and also internally. The sum of it is the laziness of our mind, the ultimate reduction of us to easy final solutions, fear, loneliness and blind rage. Keeping oneself and your social circle out of that is a way of continuous work and improvement. And it shows with how mellowed many are to straight up nazi salutes just around time most veterans of WW2 died. Media repeatedly told us it is dead, but hydra shows it’s fugly head up from everyone’s toilet.
Freedom for me, not for thee
Imagine being proud of your own hypocrisy
You have defined conservatism.
Like schadenfreude, there is probably a German compound word for aggressive ignorant hypocrisy
There is a word for it, but these people would never think of applying it to their peers because they themselves are the epitome of its meaning, which is in turn evidenced by their inability to recognize this fact: ignorance.
It’s proud ignorance. There’s nothing inherently wrong with being ignorant of something, as long as you don’t remain ignorant after learning about the thing and as long as you don’t take pride in it.
Yes, for the more informed among them, you could call it that, or:
“Strategic ignorance (also called deliberate ignorance or wilful blindness) is the intentional avoidance of information because possessing it would impose costs, obligations, or constraints that reduce expected utility.”
Somewhat sloppyly adapted from Sweeny et al. (2010) and Sims (2003).
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
The cons sneer right in the face of any notion that they be held to any standard.
They laugh that everyone to the left of Newt Gingrich is held to standards - they view that gate-keeping as weakness, because THEY will feel absolutely no shame whatsoever about being flaming hypocrites and constantly engaging in logical fallacies, bad faith, etc…
Obviously, they will be right there, along with all the Elevated Centrist and liberal scolds, whenever a Democrat is found to not be as pure as the driven snow, or when a Democrat says something that has been debunked, etc. They will not apply that standard to Republicans.
What else have they got to be proud of? Rape? Pedophiles? Treason? Insurrection? Grooming? Indoctrination?
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
What else could one expect of MAGAts?
Every accusation is a confession.
