always thought it suspicious there was soooo many reds when the final count was in.
These data
That’s correct! Singular would be “datum”.
it’s language, if enough people get it “wrong” it’s no longer wrong.
Seems pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Like I hate the orange fuck as much as the next guy but this won’t change shit and is a waste of time that could be spent doing something better.
The point is that if there was malfeasance, it was likely applied by an algorithm in a way that was meant to be non-obvious. But, if you’re applying any kind of broad vote-rigging algorithm to vote tallying equipment across the country…well you’re going to screw up in some cases.
The idea would be to first find absolute definitive proof of election fraud in one precinct. Once that’s been done, you can use those result it justify broader searches. For example, if it’s found that this one area has fraud, then the NY legislature might direct funds to do a hand recount of the whole state. And other states can do the same.
Even if it wouldn’t revert the presidential election, if fraud is found in house votes, enough blue states might be able to reverse the elections of Republican House members elected by fraud, enough to flip the balance of power in the House. Plus definitive proof of fraud would immediately make Trump lose all political legitimacy, regardless of whether there is any actual legal mechanism to remove a president from power after being proven to be fraudulently elected…well any mechanism beyond the broken impeachment mechanism.
You do understand that if these machines were compromised, a lot more could be a well. This is the best lawsuit because there are sworn affidavits saying people voted a certain way and the results were different. Literally 0 votes.
OK, next question: Let’s say we do a ‘recount’ at this hour, assuming the evidence isn’t already lost, what then?
Think he’s going to go, ohh my bad?
Think he’s going to leave willingly?
Think the court case will even be appropriately handled once it goes to the SCOTUS.
Think the SCOTUS will even hear it?
How is it 100 days later, we just now hear about this?
Best case scenarios aren’t really on the table. Doesn’t mean you stop fighting.
I can see how it looks like I’m saying that I’m not advocating that at all. I just want to make sure that people understand this isn’t a direct path to change.
Even a direct admission will not change anyone’s mind. You are at best removing a couple of easy else for them to lie and say that’s not how it is. In the end they’re just going to lie and say that it’s not real.
It’ll be satisfying, It might make some already engaged people a little more engaged, But it isn’t self is not going to drive the needle we’re going to need more.
All correct
I think the best outcome would be that it might uncover deliberate malfeasance that might prompt some folks in congress to do what is needed. I wouldn’t be optimistic though.
Slightly more likely is that such discovery would drive the public towards a congressional swing away from his enablers at the next congressional election next year, assuming we have it. I’m moderately more optimistic on that, apparently such a swing is already forming, but to what extent isn’t clear.
We can’t undo the election results, the congressional count done on jan 6 is definitive.
I fear, if it looks like Congress isn’t going his way he’s just going to seize control.
It’s…not 100 days later. Its about 190 days later.
fair
Even if this is true, I don’t think they’re going to find the number of votes to change any outcome. Didn’t Trump win by like 3 million votes? Maybe this could have flipped an electoral college vote, but would that have even mattered?
Kamala carried New York either way, it absolutely would not change anything in the EC
e: unless it led to the uncovering of widespread fraud in key swing states, but even then they wouldn’t do shit
It’s a significant assumption that this was an isolated incident.
Even if it’s not isolated, how do you move forward after this unless someone involved confesses and gives up other areas involved? Maybe they weren’t dumb enough to be this obvious in other spots.
Ideally, you start demanding recounts But I can’t imagine that votes are properly taken care of after the fact especially in this case.
But then if we find mass wrongdoing in counts, now it’s a court thing, It goes to SCOTUS. Are they going to side with him? Frankly, there’s no way. It’s going to be authoritarian dictatorship or coup I don’t think there’s any other viable directions this could go.
Is that your general experience with people doing dumb things? That they only do it once?
I don’t think it should necessarily be about overturning the election. I would like to know if our process was compromised, wouldn’t you?
It absolutely was. It means fuckall unless something is done about it.
Does this mean libs will stop blaming voters?
You mean blaming leftists?
They won’t. They can’t even blame the person who’s job it is to be a popular candidate with polices that interest the voting public to win.
I believe most of the blame was on non-voters.
Same difference really.
So wait a minute here guys, you’re telling me that the man who was convicted by a unanimous jury of fraud (cheating) in the 2016 election, the same guy who called the governors of various states and asked them to ‘find him some votes’ in 2020, did not run a clean honest campaign in 2024???
Get out of here!!
Wasn’t it the same guy that congratulated Elon Musk for his involvement in getting him elected? I don’t know, must be fluke.
You forgot the part where he said he didn’t need your votes because he already won…
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-laura-ingraham-future-voting_n_66a85c2ae4b0e33a3bb7cd36
Leave the Electronic Frontier Foundation out of this.
Nah it’s liberal propaganda. Anyways let’s storm the capital
Ikr? Absolutely mind blowing
This is why manual hand counted votes still happen to this day in Canada and Australia. They both faced the same MAGA threat and the lib won.
Yes it takes longer. And sometimes results will take weeks to resolve but at least they don’t end up in a situation like this where the entire system is so corrupt 4 months later it’s near impossible to fix it.
Please don’t say “the lib won” the liberals in Australia are a right wing party. US paradigms are not universal, just say left or right
It doesn’t take longer. France announces the preliminary results of an election 2 hours after the polling places close.
Same in Germany
Note to mention that not only are they harder to scale attacks against, manual vote counts are easier to trust, As anyone can understand the process and how it ensured that their vote counted.
No matter how well they are protected it’s hard to explain to the average person how a computer ensures their vote was counted correctly.
They both faced the same MAGA threat and the lib won.
Largely thanks to the local public backlash to Trump tariffs. If Kamala had prevailed in November, both countries would likely have MAGA governments today.
We can’t say that. We don’t know what would’ve happened in Canada if Trump lost.
If Trump lost:
- Trudeau might not have resigned
- if he did, Carney might not have became liberal leader
- The election probably wouldn’t have even happened yet, and the campaign likely would’ve been longer when it was.
- Every party would have run very different campaigns since the top issues wouldn’t have been US relations
A lot of things could’ve been different, but most notably:
- PP might not have run a Trump-esk populist attack campaign.
For all we know PP wouldn’t be seen as “the same MAGA threat”
Yeah, it’s weird to be an American and hope the silver lining of trump is that the rest of the world keeps making better choices in response to how bad this is.
Part of the Trump brand is “Fuck you, I’ve got mine” which isn’t condusive to international coalitions.
Hell, just look at the Ukraine/Russia conflict. As soon as Trump got Zelensky to sign a bunch of Western Ukrainian real estate over to his cronies, he unleashed a large traunch of weapons to fuck over Putin. As soon as he got another Perfect Phone Call from Xi, and secured some unspecified promise, the Chinese tariffs evaporated.
My man stands for nothing that won’t fit into his pocket.
Oh I can think of one way to fix it… might be the only way left to us now
After HitlerPig’s 2025 State of the Union speech, new Democratic senator Elissa Slotkin gave the Democratic response, and tried to sell the idea that millions of people in her state voted for her for Senator, but Trump for president.
This past weekend, Amy Klobuchar tried to sell that same fantasy on Meet The Press - that millions in her state voted for her, but also voted for HitlerPig.
I’m sure there are a few people who split their vote, but they have to be as rare as white squirrels. There are supposed to be millions of them, so many that HitlerPig even won EVERY battleground state (and exceptionally unlikely outcome), but I’ve never heard one actual voter claim they voted a straight Democratic ticket, except HitlerPig for president. It sounds ridiculous when you actually say it.
I mean, I’m going to remain skeptical of widespread fraud until proven otherwise. The thing that people keep forgetting is that almost all states have some random spot checks built into their vote-counting process. Just as a matter of regular course, they’ll randomly select a certain number of ballots and compare the hand-counted and machine-counted results.
Also, fuck Trump, but I don’t really see anything odd about the idea that far more people would vote for Trump than a Republican Senate candidate. Trump’s whole shtick is getting low-propensity politically disengaged people to vote for him. And look at how low Congress’s approval ratings are. A fair number of people coming out just to vote for Trump is not unreasonable.
There are supposed to be millions of them, so many that HitlerPig even won EVERY battleground state (an exceptionally unlikely outcome), but I’ve never heard one actual voter claim they voted a straight Democratic ticket, except HitlerPig for president.
If you look at the actual vote counts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election_in_Michigan
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_Senate_election_in_Michigan
Trump | 2,816,636
Harris | 2,736,533
Slotkin | 2,712,686
Rogers | 2,693,680
Harris and Slotkin net out almost perfectly. Trump outran Rogers by over 3% of the vote, which suggests people were showing up to support Mr Cheeto and then leaving the rest of the ballot blank.
That is… not unbelievable. The Trump Cult is strong, while the GOP as a party lags Trump’s personality cult substantially.
Polling gets even worse in other Midwestern states, with Harris outright underwater to her down ballot Dems. But there’s nobody in the GOP Trump doesn’t outpace. The idea that people are voting Trump + Dem is far less likely than voting Trump + Nobody.
Citing the vote counts to prove the point that the election was “fair & square” is like using the Bible to prove that God is real. Of course they prove HitlerPig won, they’re rigged! We’re supposed to believe he won EVERY swing state? No Republican has won the popular vote since 1988, but we’re supposed to believe the least popular Republican president in decades, one who actually LOST his reelection by a wide margin, is the guy to break that streak? Ridiculous.
What makes more sense to me, and is supported by the evidence and personal statements by the players themselves, is that they rigged the election, especially in the swing states, assisted by the richest man in the world (and his army of some of the best tech experts in the world), and Putin, who we know has been actively pursuing cyber-espionage for years.
When will people internalize that the two biggest FOREIGN Sociopathic Oligarchs, one with a government superpower at his disposal, another with the largest fortune on the planet, neither with any loyalty or patriotism toward America, have partnered up with the most prolific traitor in American history, to exploit our country in every way possible? None of them care about history or legacy or reputation, they see America as a rich, fat, lazy target, ripe for exploitation and looting.
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The case the election is rigged is also based on citing the purportedly fraudulent election results.
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Republicans won the popular vote in 2024.
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The swing state results are not independent variables. They usually swing together.
Is it possible the election was rigged? Sure. But the evidence so far is pretty weak.
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For the uninitiated: The Alt-Right Playbook’s “You Go High, We Go Low”
“Treat the situation like it’s fair… because that’s what they should have done when it actually was”
To paraphrase Bush v Gore over negative votes in Florida after the SC sent the case to a lower court and it was appealed back to them
it’s been so long since the election that it would be unfair to change the outcome now
sadly yup, if there was any thing there, the oppurtunity to do something was prior to january, anything now will just be noise. Biden and Kamala were really the worst the party could have chosen, glad biden is dying, hope its painful
so we just remove things if they are upsetting? thats even worse than reddit
Basic human deceny is a foreign concept to you, aint it…
no, but it seems that way to biden when he was in charge. How many pictures of burned babies did i see in gaza, while he was there from our missiles? how many americans are suffering now because of his lack of protecting the country
Gaza is doomed. And far from my mind right now. We’ve got actual Nazis running the US which we have to deal with because nobody else is going to do it for us.
I feel sorry for you, that is an incredibly cold blooded way of looking at people, literally innicent babies at this very minute dying from hunger and parents weighing whether it is worth it to get shot by Israeli’s for trying to get any sort of food or water. I am not disregarding the US citizens that are sitting in torture prisons in other countries, they are part of the same hydra
And Trump has changed this how?
You are fucking deranged.
seeing dead babies, dead children turned to ash and then seeing our politicians say it is ok will do that
Pity for you and your poor soul
I dont have a soul, but i do feel consolation that if the heaven biden believes in exists, he aint getting in
The heaven Biden believes in:
“Forgive me father for I have sinned, I drone striked an entire region in the middle east to massive amounts of collateral damage and sent billions of dollars in weapons to Israel to be used against Palestinians.”
“Say 3 Hail Marys and one Our Father and you are forgiven.”
idk, the bible i have read seems a bit like a fairy tail and if you look at what that diety actually did and not what his various phophets since moses have tried to revisio -, that god is not a forgiving god. You cant just keep spinning up new churches to suit your ideal version of god and expect credulity.
You cant just keep spinning up new churches to suit your ideal version of god and expect credulity.
You literally set the criteria as “the heaven Biden believes in”. You’re just arguing with yourself.
yeah i know, its a petty hope anyway and its based on make believe to begin with. Just really hate how instead of doing anything with his presidency he just hurt people with his failures, ineptitude and denial about his lack of capacity for the job. He got what he wanted and noped out leaving people that supported him worse off
What the actual fuck is wrong with you
I dont like coward, liars and people entrusted with the protection of me and mine do nothing with the trust except squander it so his crackhead son can get a pardon and the kids for cash judge too. I calls them as I sees them, and its hard to argue with my stance with the direct result of his failures as pres are contributing to an active genocide and the destruction of the american democracy and human rights, what is wrong with you is the question
You are the problem with America right now. You’re out of your mind about things you clearly don’t understand. We’ve entered idiocracy and you’re just busy being a screeching parrot eh?
Why don’t you go search your soul and try to find it
ahhh, how so? how am i wrong? biden putting a republican at the doj to protect trump, failing his campaign promises, or the baby burning missiles he kept sending to the genocide Israel is commiting at this very moment.
I am the problem with America? maybe but it is far from the least of them especially since the America failed the minute we allowed a violent convicted rapist insurrectionist go unpunished and get elected with the express purpose of hurting the most vulnerable in society
What did they say?
i said i hope joe’s cancer is painful for the pain he allowed to happen on his watch and with his failure as a president. He does not deserve piece any more than orange hitler he failed to prosecute and protected
removed by mod again, how censored is lemmy? i hold no sympathies for biden and dont think he deserves any well wishes and any pain and suffering he is experiencing is justified in with the pain and suffering he caused. Maybe unpopular opinion, but half the opinions here are offensive to some people, is lemmy just a more sensitive reddit?
Read the sidebar. No celebrating death, advocating violence. The rules are there. Wishing death and pain on anyone, including Biden, is a removable offense.
I did not wish death on anybody, and it does not mention anything about pain. You are twisting the words in the rules to keep your feeling from being infringed. I have not advocated violence either. I have been called a ton of slurs and had hateful speech directed at me, which it seems is permissible as long as it promotes group think that is not uncomfortable.
I am not violating any rule and you need to take some time and read the dictionary and understand what the words you used actually means
You are a sick fuck.
ahh, how so? is there no one you wish ill of? if so, mine is far more justified. Se la vie, people still reward failure for some reason
Leftists and liberals all think they’re somehow immune to conspiracy theories, but here we are. Nearly everyone commenting or voting in this thread has an opinion based on feelings, and they’re looking for evidence to justify their beliefs. “I’m not one to believe conspiracy theories, but…” That’s a load-bearing “but” there.
No really: stop for ten seconds and think about why you believe this. Be honest.
Yes, I’m aware of the video that’s been linked repeatedly where they can’t explain how a small percentage of Trump cultists only voted for Trump and no one else. Imagine that: voters who think the entire system is corrupt and Trump is their savior don’t vote for anyone else.
Here’s an actual recount in a swing state, and it found nothing.
I’m not saying it was clean. It never is. Red states purge voters they shouldn’t, they enact laws to discourage voters and make it more difficult, etc. And sometimes it actually is a conspiracy: 2000 is one example where it really was rigged for Bush through coordinated efforts.
But there’s zero persuasive evidence for 2024. If I see some, I’ll charge my mind. But not until then.
Which county?
Edit: Rockland. Which is very much a possibility there.
This stuff has been going on for a loooong time:
Interview with Stephen Spoonamore on of the electronic voting issues that have been raised for a while now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRW3Bh8HQic
if you want to jump right to his explanation/comparison to his work with securing credit card transactions against “man in the middle” attacks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BRW3Bh8HQic#t=873
The filing also includes the revealing deposition of the late Michael Connell. Connell served as the IT guru for the Bush family and Karl Rove. Connell ran the private IT firm GovTech that created the controversial system that transferred Ohio’s vote count late on election night 2004 to a partisan Republican server site in Chattanooga, Tennessee owned by SmarTech. That is when the vote shift happened, not predicted by the exit polls, that led to Bush’s unexpected victory. Connell died a month and a half after giving this deposition in a suspicious small plane crash.
Additionally, the filing contains the contract signed between then-Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell and Connell’s company, GovTech Solutions. Also included that contract a graphic architectural map of the Secretary of State’s election night server layout system.
Cliff Arnebeck, lead attorney in the King Lincoln case, exchanged emails with IT security expert Stephen Spoonamore. Arnebeck asked Spoonamore whether or not SmarTech had the capability to “input data” and thus alter the results of Ohio’s 2004 election. Spoonamore responded: “Yes. They would have had data input capacities. The system might have been set up to log which source generated the data but probably did not.”
Spoonamore explained that “they [SmarTech] have full access and could change things when and if they want.”
Arnebeck specifically asked “Could this be done using whatever bypass techniques Connell developed for the web hosting function.” Spoonamore replied “Yes.”
Breakdown of why Electronic voting in general is incredibly insecure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI
Documentary going into Clint Curtis’s story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhBtfiRKaVY
(the guy from this video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs
Fractional Voting:
http://blackboxvoting.org/fraction-magic-1/
HBO documentary Hacking Democracy:
In the 2000 election cycle, electronic voting machines manufactured by Diebold used Microsoft Access as the underlying database for storing vote counts. Only techie oldheads will remember this, but in the world of electronic data storage Access was basically a toy. Access databases did have an audit table (which tracks every change made to the data), but the audit table was hand-editable.
I think the stupidity of the electorate is being vastly underestimated here.
Most likely a mix of everything. I am sure that Republicans tried to win with illegal (vote tampering) and legal (voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc…) methods. Combined with a dumbass population, everything is possible.
So on one hand: Harris won NY State by a 10% margin.
On the other hand: if vote machines were tampered with then it likely doesn’t stop there.
Felon practically admitted this last week.
Yeah, this isn’t really about that one specific district. It’s about all the other districts that were also likely tampered with.
Trump didn’t even try to get elected. Total fuck it all pill during his running like he knew he was going to win, then he wins by a huge margin electorally and the popular vote. It was surreal.
If only there was a give movement of Democrat voters telling you loudly WE WON’T VOTE FOR HARRIS…
You guys usually love to blame us for Trump, even though we promised you he would win if you didn’t give us an electable candidate, but hey if you now want to change stories again to follow whatever dem narrative is being spun today, then yeah her winning NY so bigly is obviously evidence of a stolen election…
Or she wasn’t electable. No no no, it’s everyone else’s fault.
really are some full kool aid dems or paid posters here, you would think biden failing every campaign promise, and protecting trump from prosecution would cause him a little more scorn. Trump was a known quantity, Joe was who was elected to deal with that and he absolutely dropped the ball about as hard as any other person in that office could have. Like i cant think of a way he could have sabotaged his party even if he wanted to intentionally do it rather than as an abject failure of a man
Sometimes you have to just suck it up and act/vote to reduce harm. That’s called reality. It’s like taking chemo if you have a fatal cancer. Chemo SUCKS and you might die of cancer anyway, but if you don’t go through it, you will certainly die.
Who was an electable candidate in 2024?
Maybe if we had a primary, we might have found one, don’t you think?
Sure.
But the Democrats decided not to hold a primary that late, and I don’t recall any Democrats running a meaningful challenge to her candidacy…
So, let me ask again. Who was an electable candidate in 2024?
Pete B with Tim W probably would have done significantly better even with the gay handicap with the homophobes. Especially if he got more of a running start.
Not a perfect candidate, but I think a lot of people underestimate how many people truly dislike Harris. For legitimate reasons and otherwise. Running a black woman who a lot of people genuinely didn’t connect with against Trump was goofy. It sucks that it’s the way it is but this is America.
yup, they kicked out Hogg because of the threat to their lifelong tenures and disrupt their ability to put their thumbs on the scale for the most disappointing republican lite candidates the isreali money wants the dnc to run
This enraged me. Totally enraged me. I am surprised he’s not running again just to shove it down their corrupt throats.
they only people that the dems are good at fighting are their popular names trying to promote change
I’m very much against conspiracy theories, especially concerning our elections which are administered by many many independent entities. I was very concerned as I watched electronic voting machines - especially without paper trails - become more and more popular over the past 30 years. Even more as the industry consolidated and it came down to a handful of private, for-profit manufacturers.
The thing I’ve read about that is keeping the door of conspiracy open in my mind is the “drop off” rate, which has to do with the number of “President only” ballots, where only the President is chosen, and no down ballot votes are cast.
Apparently Trump’s ballots have an unusually high - like statistically unlikely - drop off. And it’s either only in or mostly in/more pronounced in swing states.
Even Chris Titus picked it up (3 hrs total, sorry)
https://youtu.be/UgIay64Obcs - Part 1 https://youtu.be/t-yr-Mgkhm0 - Part 2
Thanks for the links, I’ll check them out
