This was not inevitable. This is a war Israel chose. It could have been prevented. Diplomatic talks were ongoing when the bombers took off for Iran. Israel’s continuing, illegal, unjustified airstrikes are unlikely to achieve their stated aim – permanently ending Tehran’s presumed efforts to build nuclear weapons – and may accelerate it. They must stop now. Likewise, Iran must halt its retaliation immediately and drop its escalatory threats to attack US and UK bases.
This conflict is not limited, as was the case last year, to tit-for-tat exchanges and “precision strikes” on a narrow range of military targets. It’s reached a wholly different level. Potentially nothing is off the table. Civilians are being killed on both sides. Leaders are targets. The rhetoric is out of control. With Israel fighting on several fronts, and Iran’s battered regime backed against a wall, the Middle East is closer than ever to a disastrous conflagration.
Reasons can always be found to go to war. The roots of major conflicts often reach back decades – and this is true of the Israel-Iran vendetta, which dates to the 1979 Islamic revolution. The so-called “shadow war” between the two intensified in recent years. Yet all-out conflict had been avoided, until now. So who is principally to blame for this sudden, unprecedented explosion?
Answer: three angry old men whose behaviour raises serious doubts about their judgment, common sense, motives and even their sanity.
Angry old men … ruling the biggest countries in the world … and all of them not caring what they are going to do or not do because they’re going to be dead or senile or incapable to do anything within the next ten years.
blaming the top government officials only is stupid. Thet completelyignore that they got voted in and have majority support among their population. At least Iran has less of a choice, and even then was negotiating a deal and agreed to one in the past!
Putin has a day off?
He’s too busy begging these three for help.
What an insanely stupid article. Israel bombs Iran completely unprovoked. Khamenei and Iran are incredibly responsible and measured in their response. Meanwhile Israel is flailing around like a wild bully with their American big brother behind its back, threatening Iran that they are not allowed to strike back
And the liberals from TheGuardian write a both sides article about it as if all parties share blame.
The Ayatollah regime that has been building and funding terrorist proxies for years, that has a bloody countdown timer for the destruction of Israel in the middle it Tehran? The same regime who is, pretty obviously, rushing toward military nuclear capabilities in order to fulfill said countdown? You’re saying that they haven’t provoked Israel?
And you really think that firing drones and ballistic missiles at civilian populations is a measured response?
Fuck off with that bullshit.
Cool whataboutisms. Yes, Iran is shitty. No, Israel didn’t have to do this. Yes, it’s a great strategy to regain support for the Likud coalition government and not go to prison for corruption.
And you really think that firing drones and ballistic missiles at civilian populations is a measured response?
Pardon, which county are we talking about here?
Iran at least has the excuse that their missiles can’t aim that well.
Better men than these shitmuppets have tried
Likewise, Iran must halt its retaliation immediately and drop its escalatory threats to attack US and UK bases.
Apparently defending yourself is the peak of insanity now.
This article is fine, but kind of superfluous.
We get it. Everyone can see this. If you don’t have actionable advice or some additional insight, you’re really just reporting that water is wet.
Water is not wet
That’s a fun song (but also obviously silly and wrong).
I guess you go around calling fire burned
This is silly.
First, I don’t know why you’re using the past tense. I don’t call water “wetted” I call it “wet”. And while I wouldn’t call fire “burned”, I would call it “burning”.
But here’s the thing: you’re welcome to have your idiosyncratic opinion on this. The fact that you seem to want me to argue my side when I feel perfectly comfortable letting you have a subjective opinion most people consider ridiculous says to me that (A) you know which one of us holds the broadly agreed upon position and (B) this isn’t about resolving a dispute. It’s just online debate for sport.
Enjoy believing a hotdog is a sandwich. Sleep well in your claims that cereal is a soup. I’m not going to explain to you why water is wet because it’s a waste of my time.
Unfortunately not everyone is aware that water is wet. And often there are groups who try and convince people otherwise.
I agree that more ideas need to be put into action that can actually accomplish change for the better, but that requires that people be informed first.
Most scientists define wetness as a liquid’s ability to maintain contact with a solid surface, meaning that water itself is not wet, but can make other sensation.
But if you define wet as ‘made of liquid or moisture’, as some do, then water and all other liquids can be considered wet.
So… by a highly common definition it is wet. That’s not much of a debate.
There are plenty of words that mean different things in scientific contexts that are different from common use. It’s like saying “the sky is blue” is a false statement. Yes, there are contexts where the sky isn’t blue. At night. On other planets. Perhaps earlier periods in our planet’s history. But are we in those contexts right now? And is my meaning ambiguous?
There are a lot of times where language is unclear, and we must work to bridge communication barriers. But to insist on debating things when no genuine confusion is present is just an a bizarre antisocial practice.
Tldr
Ah yes, blame all three even though its been clearly israel and Netanyahu who have been beating the war drums for 30+ years. Israel has been talking about Iran developing a nuke for 30 years and saying that “its around the corner”. Israel did the same with Iraq btw and dragged the US to war.
You mean unlike the islamic dictatorship that was founded with an objective to destroy Israel?
Oh no, another “we are the victim” comment
I’m definitely not a victim. But pretending that Iran is somehow morally superior to Israel is fucking laughable.
The Iranian regime is also criminal. When it comes to civilians however, the Israelis are far more criminal. They are settlers who steal other peoples land, they participate and actively endorse genocide. 82% of them want to ethnically cleansed Gaza.
We need a de-zionisation like we had de-nazification.
Yeah, i wouldn’t be happy if people came and took my land. The difference between them is that Iran has already done the deed and taken everything from those that aren’t Muslims.
Morally superior, probably not. Causing less geopolitical problems and starting less unprovoked wars, definitely. At least right now.
They learned from USA and the soviets how to invest in proxies that does the work.
False equivalencies.
This freaking assholes are going to do the thing that the last string of Putin’s morality didnt allow him to do and give a white card to any future psycopath to use nuclear weapons.
Russia and the USA created this monsters. We need to deweaponize the fuck out of all of them before it is to late.
The thing is, there are people who need to be killed, and we just can’t agree on who. And the people who say no one are the worst of all. Let’s make some progress in this world.
Illegal, maybe. But… Unjustified? Maybe the author is unaware of Isreal’s recent divulgence of Iran’s plan to sprint for a nuke while its militant religious zealots in Hamas and Hizbullah are hobbled? Or how openly the mullahs state that they will use it?
Surely nobody has ever lied about the military capability of a country it wanted to attack…
Never thought a lemmy.ml user would not be campist and see the evil of the leaders of Iran. Thank you my friend. It’s good to see that not everyone on Lemmy is supporting Khamenei and his regime. It’s though watching people white washing the regime that has ruined my homeland, Iran.
see the evil of the leaders of Iran
I remember when Americans purged Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria of Evil.
Funny how Khamenei’s regime has also done their share of intervention in the same places.
Afghanistan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liwa_Fatemiyoun
Iraq: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_intervention_in_Iraq_(2014–present)
Syria: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war
Lebonan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_influence_in_Lebanon
Iraq: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_intervention_in_Iraq_(2014–present)
Holy shit, are you Pro-ISIS?
Get fucked, dude.
Israel has nuclear weapons, its neighbours that it threatens have every right to nuclear weapons. You just want Israel to achieve its expansionist goals with no pushback.
Despite having nuclear weapons and not being a party to the NPT, Israel has never threatened to use them.
Unlike Iran and most of its neighbors which threaten to destroy Israel every chance they get.
With Zionists, every accusation is a confession
Since before its founding it has been engaged in ethnic cleansing, massacres and expansion. Right now it illegally occupies the West Bank, parts of Lebanon and Syria, enforces a brutal siege on the Gaza Strip and is guilty of genocide. You are talking about it as if they are victims and not a violent and racist settler colonial project based on apocalyptic and messianic ideologies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantura_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_Golan_Heights
https://www.972mag.com/second-nakba-mainstream-israeli-right/
https://mepei.com/greater-israel-an-ongoing-expansion-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-north-africa/
Illegal, maybe. But… Unjustified? Maybe the author is unaware of Isreal’s recent divulgence of Iran’s plan to sprint for a nuke while its militant religious zealots in Hamas and Hizbullah are hobbled? Or how openly the mullahs state that they will use it?
citations needed!
Yes the mullahs want nukes. Source? I am Iranian.
I’m sorry but that is the most insane reply I have ever read in response to a perfectly valid question for citations. “Trust me bro! I’m Iranian!”
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The mullahs have never shown the people any actual usage of the nuclear program. We are having planned blackout outs everyday for almost 1 hour and a half. So they don’t use the nuclear infrastructure to make up for the electricity shortage. From the day I was born Iran was sanctioned for it’s nuclear program but I have never seen an actual usecase of it outside of regime propaganda.
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From the beginning of the regime they made many enemies. But Israel was the one they vowed to earase from the map. So if someday Iran makes nukes Israel will be the most in danger.
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Khamenei seems to legitimately believe that he is some kind of chosen person to make things ready for the 12th Imam (Mahdi) to come. Yeah it sounds wild but remember, Khamenei is the leader of a theocracy. So to “make things ready” they tried to intervene and influence in the middle east. Assad in Syria, Hashad al Shabi in Iraq, Hezbollah in Lebonan, etc.
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More like “Trust me bro I’m on the Iran desk at Eglin Airforce Base.” There are Iranians yapping on Facebook etc, even the critical ones don’t use US State Department lingo to refer to the Iranian government like “the mullahs” lol.
Bruh when Israel can just do a genocide and bomb countries left and right with no consequences AND they have nukes, it’s perfectly normal to want nukes to even the odds. Nothing justified about any of Israel’s crimes.
I mean, given the attacks I can see why they would feel nuclear weapons are necessary.
Nobody is pulling this shit on North Korea.
damn they just pretend the UK is not the country that fuel Jets over Iraq to facilitate the bombing. Or it is not the UK base in Cyprus and vessels that provide a command center and communication tool to facilitate the mission.
If you want to attack Iran and accelerate to a wwiii don’t shy from telling the truth about your involvement, we know it, you know it …
The Zygon Inversion - A Transcript of The Doctor’s Speech [edited for brevity]
The Doctor: You just want cruelty to beget cruelty. You’re not superior to people who were cruel to you. You’re just a whole bunch of new cruel people. A whole bunch of new cruel people, being cruel to some other people, who’ll end up being cruel to you. The only way anyone can live in peace is if they’re prepared to forgive. Why don’t you break the cycle?
Bonnie: Why should we?
The Doctor: What is it that you actually want?
Bonnie: War.
The Doctor: Ah. And when this war is over, when – when you have the homeland free from humans, what do you think it’s going to be like? Do you know? Have you thought about it? Have you given it any consideration? Because you’re very close to getting what you want. What’s it going to be like? Paint me a picture. Are you going to live in houses? Do you want people to go to work? What’ll be holidays? Oh! Will there be music? Do you think people will be allowed to play violins? Who will make the violins? Well? Oh, You don’t actually know, do you? Because, just like every other tantruming child in history, Bonnie, you don’t actually know what you want. So, let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you’ve killed all the bad guys, and it’s all perfect and just and fair, when you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you? The troublemakers. How are you going to protect your glorious revolution from the next one?
. . .
The Doctor: This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought right there in front of you. Because it’s always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who’s going to die. You don’t know who’s children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they’re always going to have to do from the very beginning – sit down and talk! Listen to me, listen. I just – I just want you to think. Do you know what thinking is? It’s just a fancy word for changing your mind.
Lol. What about the millions that got them into office in the first place? It’s not a gender issue. It’s a human nature one - acting out their insecurities by lashing out at the perceived enemy.
You forgot the worst one: Putin, age 72 years.
Trump and Netanyahu are both worse.
Wrong.
Only wrong if you think white lives are more valuable than non-white lives
I mean, Putin is a pretty big sponsor of mayhem, corruption and autocracy in nations of all average skin tone.
Sure, but less than Trump or Netanyahu
You’re from .ml, so we might not be working from the same facts, but I’d put Putin ahead of Trump at the moment for sure. Trump has more long term evil potential basically just because he’s in a very vulnerable but powerful country.
Gaza vs. Ukraine is the obvious comparison for Netanyahu, and it probably depends on how you measure it. I’d expect there’s more actual deaths in Ukraine, but it’s a more populous country, they’re more likely to be military casualties and the non-lethal misery dealt is much lower. It’s even harder to factor in Russian operations in Africa and the rest of the world, although they’re a significant source of brutality as well.
Oh yes. I forgot that ukrainians are black. How silly of me.
They aren’t, that’s my point
No, you’re right. Putin is much worse.
More than 1 million dead in the war.
As bad as the war against Hamas is, it pales in comparison.
No, you’re right. Putin is much worse.
Sure, if you believe only whites are human.
More than 1 million dead in the war.
Lol. Where did you get that number from?
As bad as the war against Hamas is, it pales in comparison.
Oh, you’re a genocide denier and a fascist, never mind.
No, Putin owns Trump. Everything Trump does is literally at Putin’s request. Same with Bukele. Assad. And yeah, possibly Israel/Netanyahu, it’s hard to know how much they know. Because BRICS united those countries to do this to weaken USD globally and thus US control. And each country that helped BRICS will get a military objective from the west, and Iran wants Israel apparently (it’s likely Saudi Arabia is a secret member who will get part of Israel along w maybe Egypt). Russia wants everything the arctic ocean touches. China wants Taiwan, the South China Sea, and probably Australia (gold). I habe write ups in my history about it with links proving Trump/Russia connection. Iran and Russia worked together to get Trump elected in 2024:
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy2766
Bibi got Trump elected same way as Iran Contra hostage situation, by holding the hostages against Biden by proxy so he couldn’t resolve the Gaza issues. It’s likely Epstein worked for Maxwell whose father worked to fly Jewish kids in bad situations from Europe to Israel. I have a link in my posts from a news article at the time.
So both Russia and Israel have blackmail on Trump, and it seems likely Russia has something on Netanyahu to get him to betray his own people like this. Or maybe he just wants money and power. Idk.
But they are seemingly pawns of BRICS/Russia/China, selling out their own people for greed. My guess is that China will come out ahead. And before you give me a bunch of rich authoritarian propaganda about actually China is great, remember the Uyghers? They had gold. The first genocides of BRICS (called “gold BRICS” in China) were over minority groups that lived on land with gold. And the reason they live there, is bc land that has gold is usually volcanic and dangerous, and usually has severe mercury contamination from the 1800s practices of gold mining. So they coralled these people off to deadly shitholes, and now they are genociding them and enslaving us and moving us to random countries so we can’t escape and live outside to make us work those deadly shitholes so they can be entombed in liquid gold while climate change eats us. Sorry, I mean, their bunkers and space ships to save them from bombs will totally work and the Titanic sub wasnt a testament to the wealthy’s ignorance of science and deadly hubris
Ok, but I’m talking about the real world, not the fevered conspiracy theory world of Qanoners painted blue.
Tankie detected
If anyone needed further evidence that “tankie” just means “anyone to the left of the US Democrats”, I present the above.
How is defending one fascist leader as less evil than two others left of anything?
So the person defending Trump and Netanyahu as less evil than Trump is a tankie as well? Or are you just a hypocrite?
No, theyre likely leaning towards overly focusing on American pain.
Someone overly focused on Netanyahu as evil, honestly like fair, he’s doing some hardcore genocide at the moment.
If someone is overly focusing on Khemini as evil, they’re likely an Islamophobe, gender reducionist, or Iranian.
Ok, so you’re just a hypocrite
Someone overly focused on Netanyahu as evil, honestly like fair,
That’s literally what got me called a tankie!
