Kinda reminds me of boot camp, using psychological attacks to break down men’s will and have him disregulated and complient
it makes sense they want robots, who wont question where and what to shoot.
so many comments claiming this post blames or makes fun of men and incels that i went back and reread the whole thing… what the fuck are the lot of you even responding to‽ there’s nothing like that in the post, and on the contrary it says men are victimized by this. Jesus, some of you are really willing to take anything as a slight. beats self reflection i guess.
it doesn’t blame men
Is your point that manosphere is not “men” but… Idk, a subspecies of a very aggressive and mean bear?
manosphere refers to the online cult created by influencers like Rogan, Tate, etc.
you’re literally doing the “if you criticize Israel you’re antisemitic” bullshit for manosphere and misandry instead.
It doesn’t blame men, except those specific men and all the men who listened or fell for them
Is that your point?
(I’m going to ignore your personal attacks.)
please point to the personal attack in my comment
you’re literally doing the “if you criticize Israel you’re antisemitic” bullshit
calling out your bullshit is not a personal attack. a personal attack is an attack on someone’s person, not their actions. i commented on your actions.
If that were true, you wouldn’t be trying to derail that conversation but you’d got back to what exactly is your point here? Because I called your point bullshit?
Lemmy becomes completely irrational whenever the words “male loneliness epidemic” appear, once you read that around here (and it shows up in the OP) you can skip the comments as nothing good will come out of the thread.
I kinda get it though
Yeah a good few people are telling on themselves by feeling called out by this.
this post brings up some good points, but I want to be clear that turning men into women hating incels who will die alone is the GOAL of all this rhetoric. it doesn’t have to be that way.
if your reaction to this post is “women bad” you should take a step back and realize they’ve already gotten you to take the first step down the pipeline.
pickup artists seemed to heavily reinforce the manosphere alot prior to the likes of tate, and peterson. and Gymbros fall for it as well. especially the ones that are make jokes about people who are not going to gyms, or they eat certain foods that the gymbro doesnt like, eventhough they arnt the one eating. they always make a snide or passive aggressive comment.(its none of your business)
be 5’ 7"
not attractive to most women (aww)
every airplane seat feels like first class
live longer on average (aww)
workout once a week and look buff
no car is too small
sleep like a king in beds of any size
women generally trust you more easily cos your presence is non-threatening
You know it’s not that bad of a trade. Y’all sixfooters have fun with the girls.
I’m not quite 5’8, and I was in the Marines, where obviously size was made to be something, especially in the infantry, but I always used to just tell dudes that I’m harder to shoot, and in the unlikely event they get me before you, I’m easier to carry to safety. Fucking win-win as far as I’m concerned.
And with those days long behind me, and married with a short wife and hort kids of my own, I’m the biggest thing in the world to them. So just find an equally short person to spend your life with. Or don’t, nothing matter!
I’m gay and everyone is the same height to me once you get 'em horizontal
It’s true. Women trust me partially because…wtf am I going to do to them? Sit on her head? Bite her ankles? So, I’m one of the only two being driven by my co-worker nowadays. Bonus points for having given up on relationships, because even if I was in the mood for those, I don’t have time for no personal life.
What is “manosphere”?
It’s a sphere made out of naked men. It’s a dangerous weapon because of its incredible sexiness.
HOT.
basically toxic and hyper masculinity encapsulated into a community, a cult of sorts.
An insulating community of conservative influencers and their fans, focusing on giving lost males “meaning” by feeding their ego.
a modern day cult and not even a classy one.
I think they mean toxic masculinity
Study on men who are chronically single showed the common denominator: having extremely low confidence. Now that I think about it, this post corroborates the target profile of negging by abusers-- victims who have low self-esteem.
There are, for the lack of a better word, not so good looking men or short men having relationships, in one form or another, with ridiculously good looking women because these men have confidence without being too bragadacious. Of course, there are shallow women who go for looks alone (same as men), but there are just as many kind-hearted and less shallow women who prefer men with personality over looks and vice versa.
Low confidence and self-critical thoughts are what impedes chronically single men. Sometimes, it is indeed on the state of mind. And this vulnerability of lonely men is exploited by manosphere to create incels. I don’t have a solution to address the problem but this is a general observation.
yea, incelism is all about blaming women for all thier inadquecies, the reason they dont have a job, or they not tall, or they dont have large dong. or they are not hot. they could be looking the wrong places, if a psychopath can have a SO, so can “incels”
Contrapoints has a really great video about this.
Podcast episode #120 (Invicil) from Reply All should be required listening in this day and age.
Invicil: How a shy, queer Canadian woman accidentally invented one of the internet’s most toxic male communities.
Man, Reply All was so good… It really bummed me out when I heard that PJ is a major bully/asshole.
Was that ever substantiated? I saw some comments saying that it was just a rumor, I didn’t really look to hard into it because the podcast was over by then.
Eh, I agree and disagree with the image text. There are similarities, yes, but I wouldn’t view it quite as closely connected as the post implies. Main reason being that there’s a difference between using verbal abuse to control someone’s actions – like what it implies an abusive boyfriend would do to control his gf – and using generally third party reference points to construct an admittedly grim world view for a broad demographic group. The manosphere approach is closer, I’d say, to the marketing done by the women’s beauty industry in this regard.
Ie. there are certain trends / norms that women tend to cycle through, and certain beauty standards that people generally seem to expect from women (without digging in to that!). The beauty industry leverages that and puts out products re-enforcing those norms / helping ppl align to those norms. There are lots of people that find alternative body types attractive, and/or that have more realistic expectations. But if you’re a woman who’s obsessed with beauty trends, it can become an unhealthy obsession leading to potential issues like anorexia.
In that it’s toxic when taken to an extreme, and in that its fundamentals are based in “reality”, the beauty industry’s similar to manosphere rhetoric. The manosphere’s “short guys get no girls” mentality is backed by many short guys experiences with dating (especially online, where they’re pre-filtered!); similarly, a fat girl with lopsided facial features will have difficulty, making the beauty industries products/message more enticing/convincing. They both leverage the generally negative real world experiences of their target audiences to ‘ground’ their message. Both movements also have equatable super stars – “Supermodels”/OnlyFans girls/Twitch Streamers/Whatever who are deemed the most beautiful women, and “Tech bros” who are fathering armies of children and touting right wing eugenics-like ideals.
Mostly pointing this alternative comparison out, because I think there’s a bit of grey on the manosphere stuff. An obsession with beauty standards/industry stuff is unhealthy, but in moderation its ok/beneficial; an obsession with “men’s rights”/“men’s issues” is unhealthy, but in moderation it’s likely a good thing. More guys being more conscious about their health, and getting more exercise, isn’t a bad thing after all – and that’s one of the themes in that manosphere clusterfuck.
This is quite an insightful comment actually, thanks.
“OMG these people are incel losers they have no worth and deserve to die!”
“Incel losers” commits a horrific crime because they were treated like they have no worth and deserve to die
“OMG can you believe it? We should bully them harder, that will fix things!”
Maybe the fucking problem is people treating these poor people so horribly. We want to PREVENT such things happening which means addressing the root of the problem and trying to catch people who could fall into those destructive manoaphere circles BEFORE they get the idea to commit mass murder. I’m PRETTY positive the solution isn’t to bully them more.
“Incel losers” commits a horrific crime because they were treated like they have no worth and deserve to die
What makes you think that was why a particular crime was committed? There are lots and lots of people who get bullied and are treated like shit and they don’t act out in some horrible, violent way.
I think it’s these communities that they’re in that encourage that kind of behavior. We need better support structures for our society so that people who need community can find something healthy.
I thought we agreed to treat every life as worthless, unless they have a couple of million dollars on them, regardless of gender or race?
A part that complicates things is that incels, contrary to what the name implies, choose to be incels. Also, working with incels specifically could end up giving a perverse incentive (or whatever it’s called when an effort to reduce something instead becomes an incentive to increase it) to be an incel to get help.
thats a volcel, no?
I realize you’re probably just making a joke but the reality is that there are few people so ugly that no one would have sex with them. Even if you keep your standards high, I’m sure there’s many cases of someone whose own mother would cry at the sight of that managed attract a model who is just into that.
But the attitude is very off-putting, more so than whatever physical characteristics they think disqualifies them from love or sex (and a good number of them aren’t even unattractive but just have no self-esteem and hate themselves so much they either can’t believe someone else would like them or that someone who does must have big problems of their own or is lying to use them).
Even the niceguy attitude is offputting, and the incel attitude is pretty much that but replace the sadness with anger and the depression with rage, and add a bunch of BS masquerading as the science of attraction that proves they aren’t attractive and ignores that it’s subjective and that there’s this weird “so ugly it’s cute” category that some/many people seem to have (though it usually applies to animals rather than people).
This is the Just World Fallacy. Saying “You can’t get laid because you have a bad attitude” isn’t any different from saying “The reason why you’re homeless is because of your bad attitude.”
Okay. Does that help at all? Abso-fucking-lutely not.
I disagree that it’s unhelpful. I’ll agree that it’s not an easy thing like “just smile more, you’ll get laid!” But step 1 for any incel to actually get laid would be to stop being a fucking incel and recognize that no one owes them sex, affection, or even a moment of their time to hear them out or explain why they won’t.
If you choose to wallow in something, whether it be inceldom or depression, you’re going to find it very difficult or impossible to come out of that.
Incels sound like a toxic cult, and I’m not sure how much you can blame people for getting indoctrinated into a cult.
Depression is a disease which is treated with medication and therapy, so I don’t see that as similar at all.
What I find interesting is that most people try to counter this with “Just do this, and then maybe you’ll get laid”, instead of pointing out how self-centered the entire concept is in the first place.
But step 1 for any incel to actually get laid would be to stop being a fucking incel and recognize that no one owes them sex, affection, or even a moment of their time to hear them out or explain why they won’t.
No, that is not step 1 for actually getting laid, because there is no step 1 for that. Some people are doomed to be alone and miserable, and for some of them, that’s never going to change. That’s just how it is. I wish we’d built a better society which actually takes care of people, but that isn’t the one we live in. I just do my best to try to make things better.
What we really need is legalized sex work, but there’d have to be protections for the workers so they wouldn’t have to worry about being abused by their clientele. Legalized sex work with strong sex workers’ unions would be ideal.
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Well, you choose whether or not to identify as an incel. Which is what you mean, I assume.
Yeah, inceldom is a mindset, choosing to be bitter about their state of affairs and lash out at others for not wanting them. I don’t frequent their areas, but some of them blame various ratios of their facial positioning when their face is fine, it’s just their attitude that is shitty.
I guess it could be argued how much one can change their personality to be less off-putting, but I’ve known some real ugly dudes that have had fine dating lives.
Sure, but what you’re describing here is more than just an attitude. It’s a cult.
This is essentially cult tactics, yeah. As much as I loathe incels… Some of them genuinely need help.
The ones who are in too deep to literally start calling women “foids” tho? Throw them in the woodchipper. Dick first.
They’re in a decentralized cult. They all need help, but some of them need a lot more help before they’re going to be release candidate males
Ive never heard that term before. I’m guessing it’s some sort of shortening of “femoid” (a word I believe to have made up right now, but can imagine incels using regularly)
a word I believe to have made up right now
if only
*sighs*
Yes, that’s literally a shortening of that, and “femoid” was a word they DID use constantly. And then they shortened it further to disguise it more, I guess. I’m sorry you had to find it out this way :|
they are so chickenshit they cant even admit they are woman haters, aka mysogynists. they dont like being called out being a mysogynist, so they disguise it as something else, like blaming them for causing thier own problems.
I’m sorry to tell you you’re exactly right.
thats why conservatives have captured them as voters, give them something to hate: women, trans people,etc/.
Isn’t this basically what religion does, as well?
Some religions.
At-will employment too.
“You’re nothing special - easily replaceable. I’m doing you a favour by letting you have this job.”
Basically anywhere where a power imbalance is an intended feature, not a necessary evil.
In a broader sense, it is what cults do.
“Nobody accepts you… but us” “You will die alone… unless you help us” and so forth.
or… “They just can’t take a joke… but we can”
Exactly this. It’s the same playbook for more than just those two groups.
Some religions do, yes, and it works, which is why they do it. The important thing is to identify these behaviors and find social groups that will empower you instead of disempowering you.
Unfortunately, humanity is better at making people feel small than building them up. And the folks who succumb to this are likely already in a compromised state so it will be hard, if not impossible, for them to pull themselves out alone.
how else does incel communities capture more incels into the fold, by extension conservative politicians.
Yup, that’s why tate sold the worst dating advice in the world while being a sex trafficker, ensuring repeat business.
The solution to many problems in our Society is to make fraud laws stronger and prosecute them more fully
and “get rick quick” schemes with extremely bad trading advice, which require high memberships.
It was an abusive exwife in my case, but yes. It’s abuse all the same. It does the same thing.
It isolates, it breaks you down, it makes you forget who you were, and then when you least expect it, they are no longer dependable for anything and you have nothing left.
And they feel nothing.
