You must log in or register to comment.
Aside from the perpetrator, there is only one person guaranteed to be present at the scene of every violent crime.
That person’s involvement is important.
… The victim???
Correct.
Police only show up after the crime has been committed, but the targeted victim was there from the very beginning. Once the violent crime has started, they are the first responding person with the motive and opportunity to end it.
Sounds like victim blaming to me.
If that’s what you “heard”, you need to get your ears checked.
I’m talking about victim empowerment, not blame. It is our duty to support the victim, in part by ensuring they have the means to support their motive to forcefully end the attack at the earliest possible opportunity. That “earliest possible opportunity” occurs long before anyone else can respond to violence. We must be proactive, engaging people before they decide to become perpetrators, and enabling people to stop violent attacks before they become victims.
If that’s what you “heard”, you need to get your ears checked.
I’m talking about victim empowerment, not blame. It is our duty to support the victim, in part by ensuring they have the means to support their motive to forcefully end the attack at the earliest possible opportunity. That “earliest possible opportunity” occurs long before anyone else can respond to violence. We must be proactive, engaging people before they decide to become perpetrators, and enabling people to stop violent attacks before they become victims.
The first responder to a violent crime is always the victim. It is our responsibility to ensure the effectiveness of their immediate response.
You are still focusing on the wrong part for preventing crime.
The only people who will always be at a violent crime are the perpetrator and the victim. One of those two is motivated to start crime. The other, to stop it.
Addressing the perpetrator, I first have to convince them to do a 180 on their motivations. I have to convince them that the weak, tasty victims they have been preying upon shouldn’t be touched, and that they should instead go after tough, bland game instead. This is what you want me to focus on.
Addressing the victim, we merely have to show them how to achieve their goals, whether that is to be something sharp and vicious who can fight back, or how to be mistaken for one who can.
The reality is that I am focusing on that first part: it’s a lot easier to convince those perpetrators not to perpetrate when we can show them their victims are likely to fight back.
Crime prevention does indeed start with social programs. But it doesn’t end there. I’m all for defunding the police and I do agree that in the US police is really out of hand, but let’s not be naive here. Social programs aren’t going to address organized crime, or crimes of passion, crimes of immaturity (tenagers are both immature hormone soups and capable of causing harm) or political extremism. Antisocial behaviours can appear even in the socialistest of the welfarest of the welfare states.
Not to mention that cops have at the very least also the role of maintaining order, which is different from preventing crime. Think traffic cops, or rowdy crowd marshalling, or stopping disorderly conduct in public, or (extreme example) breaking up the mob that wants to lynch the alleged pedophile, to make sure he gets due process.
I’m all for a profound overhaul of policing, and for deep changes to what first responders are called for what emergency, but, honestly there exist functions for which police is useful.
Stop!!! You are making Blahaj Lemmy have a brain melt from all of that logic. They can’t comprehend anything but the thought of a lawless shitshow ruled by a ruthless “communist” dictator, where they somehow still have rights for queer people.
Yep just look at Japan. Very safe and orderly country because of the cultural and societal upbringing of people and the pressure to behave. Still has organized crime, still idiots who break traffic laws, still has financial crimes, etc.
Honestly, culture is only part of the reason.
The majority of people having enough and making enough to live on, and having actually safety nets and access to affordable Healthcare means you don’t need to commit crimes to survive. As always it’s not perfect and things can always change, but having less wealth inequality really does wonders for a society
For sure! But people don’t only commit crimes to survive.
When people’s needs are met, they tend to not do illegal things.
Here’s what I wrote above:
Crime prevention does indeed start with social programs. But it doesn’t end there. I’m all for defunding the police and I do agree that in the US police is really out of hand, but let’s not be naive here. Social programs aren’t going to address organized crime, or crimes of passion, crimes of immaturity (tenagers are both immature hormone soups and capable of causing harm) or political extremism. Antisocial behaviours can appear even in the socialistest of the welfarest of the welfare states.
Not to mention that cops have at the very least also the role of maintaining order, which is different from preventing crime. Think traffic cops, or rowdy crowd marshalling, or stopping disorderly conduct in public, or (extreme example) breaking up the mob that wants to lynch the alleged pedophile, to make sure he gets due process.
Never call the pigs unless you want to see you or your loved ones executed or enslaved. Call family, friends, or neighbors you trust before you call the pigs. Develop mutual aid networks BEFORE you need them.
yeah man I’ll call my fucking 75 year old neighbour when some 17 year old chav’s are stealing my shit on a tram, or trying to stab me. Are you a fucking rock or something??? I cannot comprehend how stupid of an idea that is. Like yeah sure you might have neighbours that can help, but not everyone does. Not everyone can help either, and not everyone is useful/safe. I’m calling the cops 10/10 times.
Every law you pass, no matter how good your intentions, is another excuse for the gangbangers in badges to come beat up on us. I’ve tried to make a million atheists in my life and have made around 0. You can build public transit. You can’t make not using it immoral. Who the fuck do you think you are? With your fucking prestigious, well- thought- out moral system? Fuck off. You guys shape the world, I’m going to throw bricks at your pigs.
Mentally ill, non-violent, habitual drug user here. I can attest that, regardless of my moral condemnation of policing, a good 60 percent of my encounters with police have contained abuse, incompetence, or gross misconduct.
Oh, and I’m a white man with blue eyes, and 5’1".
I have seen the way people drive if there are no consequences for driving terribly and dangerously. I assure you it cannot be fixed with just speed/red light cameras, speed bumps, and social programs. (And honestly, cameras and especially speed bumps just make the road worse for everyone)
It’s a bit disingenuous to pretend police and punishment in general are not a deterrent. Yes, reducing police has shown to reduce crime for some time in certain case studies, but not removing them.
however, just like the severity of punishment, after a point the more police you have see diminishing returns, and in serious over policing cases you start to get more crime because they start looking for reasons to hand out fines and smaller charges to justify/fund their job. However, prosperity reduces the amount of crime more than anything, in a given population.
"Mom, I know your intentions are good, but aren’t the Police the protective force that maintains the status quo for the wealthy elite? Don’t you think we ought to attack the roots of social problems instead of jamming people into overcrowded prisons?”
“Look, Lisa! It’s McGriff the Crime Dog! Hello Lisa! Help me bite crime! Ruff ruff!”
The Simpsons
It’s not about preventing crime
The rich break laws constantly, with no consequences
The police are there to make sure that those who aren’t wealthy enough to be insulated from the consequences of their actions know their place
Take it a step back…the root cause of most crime (or at least non-white-collar property crime) is social and economic inequality, which is now and has forever been driven by the wealthy ruling class.
Rich people cause all the crime.
I agree with the post but not the title.___
My ex husband called the police on me two years ago because he wanted to kick me out and move in his new concubine.
When they showed up, they told me I could either go to jail or a mental institution, that I had to leave the house I was currently paying bills on.
They have denied that they did this, and refused to provide me a police report. I had zero protections in my divorce. The fact that I was evicted from my house meant that I did not have the documentation of the physical and mental abuse that I needed for court. Not that it mattered anyway, because my ex drained my bank account a few weeks later and made it impossible to get a lawyer.
That’s a pig’s job. I’ve watched those motherfuckers forge documents. They show up, shit on people, then cover up their misconduct and idiocy.
Supporting male dominance is part of their real job.
If there’s a fight, they arrest the victim and let the assailant go free. Then charge the victim with “assault with a deadly weapon”.
Source: Happened to me. I was thinking Motherfucker, I don’t got no weapon, fuck off. Charges were all dropped.
I used to roll my eyes when Redditors posted anti-police sentiment, I thought they were just being edgy. Turn out they were right.
Some people don’t understand until they’ve been victimized.
Thanks for sharing this experience.
People think I’m being dramatic when I say a police officer can choose to ruin your whole life, and the lives of your friends and family, just because they feel like it.
Nobody should have that kind of power.
I used to roll my eyes when Redditors posted anti-police sentiment, I thought they were just being edgy. Turn out they were right.
Glad you recognize the problem.
I was pretty “cops are kinda okay” to full blown ACAB after this story, where a my neighbor, a man in a wheelchair, was shot 9 times in the back of the head because Ryan Remington has a trigger finger.
9 times. In the back. 60 yo man in a wheelchair. And Ryan Remington is still Scott free.
The police are worse than useless. They exist to generate revenue for themselves, and they occasionally murder people.
I realise I may be pissing into the wind here, but people don’t typically stop at one crime. If you catch the person who did it, that stops them from carrying on doing crimes.
Of course, social programs also help.
I mean you can also say that that threat of jail does prevent people from committing crimes. But this seems like a pretty hyperbolic group, not really a lot of room for nuance. A lot of these ACAB people could see a cop sacrificing his life to save an orphanage full of children and still call him evil for being part of a broken system with bad people in it.
It really is. I also think a lot of the power users here just aren’t that bright, to be honest.
It seems pointless to argue this. Clearly it is true some of the time and not true others. Even some of the opportunistic petty stuff could have been prevented by timely interventions, especially social welfare programs
However There is evidence that “broken windows” policing doesn’t work, and “stop and frisk” just breeds resentment
But imagine if police had a good reputation for helping people, lived up to “protect and serve”, actually were a thin blue line keeping civilization civil, cared about preventing crime, investigating crime, seeing justice done. Imagine if they spent their time on issues that matter. Imagine if they were able to handle substance abuse and mental illness for the good of the victims, connect the desperate up with social welfare programs. Just by slogans alone we could have a much better world while preventing a huge portion of crime.
Is this fact or feeling?
People I know that work with criminals attest that the vast majority of crimes are opportunistic encounters by ordinary people and “career criminality” is rare.
Of course “I know people who say” isn’t much fact either but it’s more then nothing.
Are these people working with repeat offenders though? Or those going through the system for the very first time?
The Mafia has entered the chat…
It’s definitely not fact. In fact, the Prison Industrial Complex causes MORE crime than doing literally nothing would, let alone actually investing in amelioration of the root causes.
This has to be the most Lemmy comment I’ve ever seen.
Agreed, it doesn’t address that putting someone in jail did or didn’t prevent them from committing more crimes. Then a study is linked that focuses almost entirely on the economic aspect of jails, again not the topic. But this crowd isn’t open to an honest convo, they’re the hyperbolic “all people in group X are Y” kind folks. Not a lot of room for nuance in these convos when they can’t even stay in topic then come at you for calling out a nothing response.
explain (you won’t)
If you don’t already understand what I’m saying, I don’t think me explaining it further will help.
(he didn’t)
High quality and accurate?
Tangentially related material to garner favor from other fake, emotionally dependent, reactionary, hyper online, social rejects.
They don’t care AFTER a crime has been committed either. Every time I tried to report my bike stolen (happened a lot, unfortunately) they just laughed at me for wasting their time.
The one time I needed them for an intervention they showed up very late, obviously against their will and were downright belligerent (I was the victim of a crime, they barely registered it).
ACAB, no exceptions.
In all fairness, this one time whilst living in London (UK) the police did recover my stolen bicycle.
Frankly I totally didn’t expect it and had only reported the theft to make sure it ended up in the theft statistics.
I’ve been commuting by bicycle on and off for over 2 decades and got maybe 5 or 6 bicycles stollen in the meanwhile and this was the only one I ever got back.
My friend had his bike stolen. He insisted on filing a police report even though the cops were clearly annoyed and straight up told him it was pointless. A couple months later he saw his bike chained up on the main street in his neighborhood. There were 2 cops out on the street so he approached them and explained the situation. One laughed at him and said, “What do you want us to do about it?” The other told him he would have to provide proof that that specific bike was his and that it wasn’t just the same brand which is basically impossible.
Then he said, “We won’t be here much longer. Just go buy some bolt cutters and steal it back.”
Fuck the cops but ngl that last bit of advice kinda slaps
A bike? I had the same reaction trying to report my car stolen. Not worth their time. They couldn’t even cross reference their own data - a couple weeks later I was ticketed for abandoning my stripped car and charged for towing and storage fees. Reporting my car stolen was just an income source to them and I had to keep paying so it wouldn’t keep adding up
The guy we work with told us that there’s a pusher living on the floor below his apartment. It’s really sad because the police do nothing about it, even though there have been so many complaints from the neighbors. Narcotics are forbidden here, except for CBD-only products.
